Talk:Rihanna

Featured articleRihanna is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 12, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
August 18, 2020Good article nomineeListed
October 24, 2025Featured article candidatePromoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on September 1, 2020.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Rihanna was asked to stay at the Def Jam Recordings office until 3:00 a.m. in order to sign a contract, so that she would not sign with another label?
Current status: Featured article

Songwriter (in the infobox)

Why was "songwriter" removed AGAIN from the infobox without any consensus? 152 SONGWRITING CREDITS!!! [1] A songwriting acknowledgement by the Academy Awards in regard to her song Lift Me Up (Rihanna song): [2]

Yes, Rihanna is a songwriter! Wikipedia is about verifiability (WP:V), and it is NOT our job to determine if she's a "real" songwriter or not. We already went through this with the Beyoncé article and the long discussion and vote that ensued. Rihanna also co-wrote her most recent musical release to date, Friend of Mine (Rihanna song) for the Smurfs Movie Soundtrack.

An editor once wrote this in edit summary: "disrespectful to the people actually writing her songs. [3]

I replied: "disrespectful to the people actually writing her songs" is not a valid edit reason. Your personal feelings about her "worthiness" as a songwriter is irrelevant here, and the source provided lists 138 songwriting credits of hers. The article mentions Rihanna having co-songwriters."[4] You'll notice that ever since, her songwriting credits went up from 138 to 152.

The article mentioned Rihanna having co-songwriters, but that was removed. "In August 2019, fans noticed that Rihanna and co-songwriters Collin Edwards, Monique Lawrence, and Alexander Ogunmokun registered a song titled "Private Loving" with the music publishing organization BMI."[5]

I'm just referring to the infobox here, not the lede. Rihanna is a singer because she sings songs for herself. Likewise, she's a songwriter because she writes songs for herself. One doesn't need to write songs for many other artists or even be commended for one's songwriting to have songwriting as one of one's main professions. Without her songwriting, Rihanna would be short of 152 songs!

In comparison, Billie Eilish only has 92 songwriting credits, and no such discussion is taking place for her. [6]

I agree that Rihanna is not mainly regarded as a songwriter. This is why I'm not arguing for its inclusion in the lede, but I see nothing wrong or against the policies of Wikipedia to have the infobox mention it. Why deprive readers of the article of that information?

@750h+, Binksternet, Davey2010, Bgkc4444, and Bluesatellite: Pinging you for discussion. Israell (talk) 14:58, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison with Billie Eilish is not valid, because she only has 3 albums and debuted 1.5 decades after Rihanna who has 8 studio albums. Nevertheless, Billie co-wrote all of her songs, every single one of them, and it's a defining occupation for her. In other hand, Rihanna only co-wrote 3 of her 14 number-one songs: "Rude Boy" (co-wrote with 5 other people), "Work" (co-wrote with 6 other people), and "The Monster" (co-wrote with 6 other people). I would say, "songwriter" is not a defining profession for her, unlike being a "singer" or a "businesswoman" (with her beauty companies). Bluesatellite (talk) 22:22, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
which, adding onto Bluesatellite's comment, ties into WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. 750h+ 01:41, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sympathetic to the argument, but the media are not describing Rihanna as a songwriter. When I search Google for "songwriter Rihanna" I get no hits at all for Rihanna writing songs. Instead, I get various hits for Evan "Kidd" Bogart, Sia, Makeba Riddick, Bibi Bourelly and Ester Dean writing songs for Rihanna. Binksternet (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Once again... 1. I am only arguing for its inclusion in the infobox, not the lede. 2. It is a verifiable (WP:V) FACT that Rihanna has 152 songwriting credits. It is therefore a defining occupation for her, regardless of how high some of those songs charted, or if she has sole songwriting credits or not.
3. It is important to pay attention to number one singles that Rihanna had outside of the United States, to pay attention to charts other than the Billboard Hot 100, and to pay attention to lower-charting hits as well. For instance, Kiss It Better was an international hit for Rihanna, did well on several US charts, incl. Dance Club Songs where it hit number one. It received a Grammy Award nomination for Best R&B Song at the 59th ceremony, and it was certified 3× Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). As for Needed Me, it was a top ten hit for Rihanna, reaching number 7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and number 1 on US Dance Club Songs, Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, and Rhythmic Airplay. Too Good was a big overall hit for Rihanna as well with 5 million certified units/sales in the US alone + 8,553,333 certified/units sales in other countries. Those three songs are among the many songs Rihanna is crediting for writing.
4. "Lift Me Up" was a hit for Rihanna; it reached number one in Belgium, Hungary, Switzerland, and South Africa, number two on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart, top five in Australia, the United Kingdom, France and the top ten in various other countries. It received various film awards nominations, and it also won various awards. 5. Why not let readers of the article KNOW that Rihanna also writes so many of her songs? 152 songs is NOT negligible. Wikipedia is about verifiability (WP:V). Whether we personally consider Rihanna a "true" songwriter or not is irrelevant.
6. Both the lede and infobox refer to Rihanna as an "actress" even though she is not mainly known for being an actress. Her eight movie credits suffice. Likewise, writing 152 of her songs (even in collaboration with other writers) is pertinent enough for inclusion in the infobox. 7. The Academy Awards credits Rihanna for composing "Lift Me Up" instead of authoring it, which demonstrates that Rihanna can compose music in addition to only writing lyrics. 8. We've already been through this years ago with Beyoncé and Madonna. I don't understand why the threshold for the word "songwriter" is considered to be so much higher by certain editors than the threshold for the words "singer" or "actor/actress." Israell (talk) 03:33, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've just expanded the article to mention Rihanna's songwriting. I've included a reference to this article by American Songwriter.[7] Israell (talk) 03:59, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @FMSky, Mirrored7, and Kamo0606:, who are all opposed to her being a songwriter, and have argued with this editor over this same issue. Israell you are the only user who actually wants the "songwriter" part to stay. The occupations that should be included in the lead/infobox are the ones she is best known for, not about "how many songwriting credits she has". She has the third most No. 1s of anyone yet Billboard didn't even put her in the Top 25 songwriters of the 21st century list. Even as Binksternet said, most Google results lead to those who write songs for her. Also a "songwriting" section including only how many credits is not sufficient; take a look at Taylor Swift's. And yes, she is not known as an actress, so that part's been removed. 750h+ 05:32, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Israell you are the only user who actually wants the "songwriter" part to stay." Not true. "Songwriter" was part of the infobox for many years.[8][9][10] You removed it last September with no prior discussion.[11] It's only you out of so many editors that keep removing. And you are now officially edit-warring, even attempting to prevent me from contributing to the article with reliable sources. I did not only mention her number of songwriting credits in that section. I mentioned, with sources, how Rihanna not only wrote songs for herself but for other artists as well. You seem opposed to ANY mention of Rihanna's songwriting (a verifiable fact) anywhere in the article, thus depriving readers of that information. It makes sense to me to ask why is that! Why does mentioning her extensive songwriting craft as part of her artistry seem to bother you? I'm only arguing for "songwriting" to stay in the infobox (I did not add it to the lede), and you are now admittedly only pinging three users that you know may vote the way that you want. Isn't this canvassing? How is this fair? Israell (talk) 06:39, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"and have argued with this editor over this same issue" If you're referring to the Beyoncé article, it was decided that "songwriter" would be cited in both the lede and the infobox. Israell (talk) 07:00, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Rihanna is as much of a songwriter as Whitney Houston was. That must tell you a lot. Don't let credits, she barely has, fool you. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:55, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Rihanna has 60 songs credited to her as the songwriter on her page, but a lot of them involved large teams of songwriters collaborating together rather than just one singer & 1-2 other person co-writing such as Paul McCartney, John Lennon, James Brown, George Harrison or acts who usually wrote alone with generous credits given to another producer who provided some ideas while they oversaw the general lyricism like Michael Jackson & Mariah Carey. However since Beyonce has songwriter listed for her it's fair for Rihanna to have it too. Never17 (talk) 06:12, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Beyonce has a songwriting section because she is a known songwriter. It is cited to MANY, MANY reliable sources. She is HIGHLY involved in the songwriting process. Even though she has less No. 1s, Billboard still listed her as the fifth top songwriter of the 21st century. Rihanna is not on that list. And to you, does this look the same as this? And mind you that ties into WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Rihanna is more known as a singer, not a songwriter. 750h+ 13:48, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've already demonstrated that the ASCAP repertoire lists 152 works written by Rihanna, that the Academy Award recognized Rihanna's music composition, and that Rihanna wrote many successful songs for herself and others—all of which are notable achievements. There is no encyclopedic reason to keep absolutely any mention of Rihanna's songwriting off the article. Frankly, I do not care if one personally considers Rihanna a songwriter or not. I don't care! All I'm saying is that nobody owns an article on Wikipedia, and it is very disruptive behaviour to prevent editors from mentioning Rihanna's songwriting craft anywhere in the article. It doesn't make any sense, and this goes against the rules of Wikipedia. As I stated above, the article already mentioned Rihanna's collaborative songwriting, and that user removed it without any prior discussion last July. Israell (talk) 15:07, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also... The bottom part of the article, in the Grammy Award for Best Melodic Rap Performance 2010s section, mentions the Rihanna-penned Run This Town, a hugely successful song that sold millions of units, reached number 2 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, number 1 on four other charts, and won two Grammys and a People's Choice Award. It also mentions The Monster (song) and Loyalty (Kendrick Lamar song), two other Grammy Award-winning songs co-written by Rihanna, which further demonstrates how this article must mention Rihanna's songwriting craft in the body and infobox of the article. Israell (talk) 15:37, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t care. I don’t care about about her credits. I don’t care about if she has a billion songwriting credits. If she is a songwriter find reliable sources that discuss her job as a songwriter in detail. If she is a songwriter it should not be that hard. 750h+ 16:01, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whether or not you personally consider Rihanna a songwriter is irrelevant. I already said it: "I don't care!" Wikipedia is about verifiability; Rihanna is factually a songwriter, and it is well-documented. I've already established my points. The burden of disproof is on you, so please stop pushing your viewpoint in such disruptive manner. Israell (talk) 16:12, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I don’t care about her song writing credits in this discussion. I care about reliable sources calling her a songwriter. What should be included in the infobox is what she is best known as. Rihanna has written songs, great! Most singers have written/co-written songs. However, if you can’t find reliable sourcing discussing/breaking down her songwriting (which should not be hard if she is a songwriting) then I don’t know why we are still trying to push this narrative that a primary job of hers is songwriting. Best, 750h+ 16:25, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I provided sufficient information for the body of the article and the infobox. This is not about the lede! And I don't care that you don't care about her songwriting credits. I have nothing more to add. Israell (talk) 16:42, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Nor do I. If you can’t find sources explaining her songwriting then it should not be there. And no, you did not provide “sufficient information” but as you “have nothing more to add“ I won’t be expanding further. Also the lead needs to mirror the infobox per Template:Infobox person. Best, 750h+ 16:55, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Her songwriting been regonised by music publications such as rolling stone https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/rihannas-30-greatest-songs-ranked-205613/
and in the industry aswell her awards for song writing . If she writes with others in collaboration to qualify as a song writer then you disregard k pop artists who co wrote and at times whitney Houston in your logic .
Songwriting today can be team process, and contributing melodies, hooks, and lyrics all count. I think She absolutely qualifies as a songwriter. Mr Boar1 (talk) 11:05, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If she writes with other in collaboration disqualitys her being listed in your logic i mean * Mr Boar1 (talk) 11:07, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the source! However, if we'd like to include it in the infobox, I think it's fair that we have sources that expand on her songwriting ability. I think it is only fair that if we want to put "songwriter" as an occupation of hers (the occupations must be something many sources know her for) we find multiple sources reflecting this. Also, I'm not disqualifying her from being a songwriter because she writes in collaboration with others. Most artists do that, and it's something a personal favourite of mine, Beyonce, has been critcized for. I don't choose what disqualifies her from being what she is, but reliable sources do.
Also, where exactly is her songwriting "recognised" in the Rolling Stone source? The most I can find is "The dancehall song was the work of small army of songwriters, including Stargate, Ester Dean, Makeba Riddick, Rob Swire and Rihanna herself.", however, by this point I've well and truly understood that she writes songs, and thanks for finding this source. However, I don't believe this is something she is known for simply based on the fact that RS says she wrote "Rude Boy". What I think is important to include a "songwriter" occupation is such articles that delve into the songwriting of these artists. Here are some examples: Taylor Swift [12][13]; Beyonce [14] [15]; Billie Ellish [16][17]. These are sources that delve into the songwriting of these respective artists. I could find many more, but these very well convey the idea that those respective artists are songwriters and have a process of songwriting; we can explain that throughout the article. 750h+ 11:35, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Rolling Stone article also says: "While it would be more than a year before Anti would arrive, the sinuous track – which Rihanna co-wrote with Jeff Bhasker, Glass John and Teddy “Natalia Kills” Sinclair – was one of the album’s most satisfying swerves"
I'll admit that in Rihanna's case, there aren't many articles that go into detail about her songwriting process, but Rihanna's songwriting has been noted by Rolling Stone and other major publications as well such as Billboard, Vogue, New York Post, and Essence.
The Wikipedia article must inform readers that Rihanna is often involved in the songwriting process of her songs. Forbidding any mention of her songwriting in the infobox and anywhere in the body of the article is not reasonable and gives the impression that she only ever sings her songs and has never written any song! Israell (talk) 09:36, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
co-writing an album does not make songwriting a main profession of her. Taylor Swift has directed music videos, but she's not mentioned in the lead as a director nor is she known at all for filmmaking. Robert Downey Jr. has released some music but he is not mentioined in the lead as a musician. If there's no sources that go directly into Rihanna then it should not be there. If the only sources that can be found on her writing are "Rihanna co-wrote [album/song]" and "Rihanna songwriting credits" I don't think that's enough to warrant "songwriter" being mentioned as a main profession or something she even enjoys doing. 750h+ 09:47, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is where we disagree. As editors, we are equal, and I do not agree with you on this. As Mr Boar1 and I noted, it is par for the course on Wikipedia for secondary main professions to be listed, and in this case, I'm only arguing for inclusion in the infobox and the artistry section (to further explain the infobox inclusion), not the lede.
Please try to understand my reasoning. In order for Rihanna to sing a song, that song must be written first. Makes sense? If she wrote (with one or more other writers) so many of her songs, then yes, it is a secondary main occupation for her. Without her input, those songs would never have been made or would not be what they are now.
I cannot comprehend your extreme point of view that her songwriting should not be mentioned at all, not even once, in the entire article just because more in-depth information on her songwriting process aren't provided.
Rihanna's written songs for herself and other artists as well. Home, one of the movies Rihanna acts in and that is mentioned in the lede, has a movie soundtrack for which Rihanna penned 4 songs and performed 3 songs. Those songs include Towards the Sun that Rihanna wrote with two writers only and performed, and "Drop That" that Rihanna wrote with Jacob Plant only and that is performed by Jacob Plant, which further demonstrates how Rihanna writes for other artists as well. Being a fully instrumental song, "Drop That" demonstrates how Rihanna can also compose music in addition to writing lyrics.
Smurfs, one of the movies Rihanna acts in and that is mentioned in the lede, has a movie soundtrack for which Rihanna penned and performed 1 song.
The article mentions the soundtrack of the film Black Panther: Wakanda Forever for which Rihanna penned and performed 2 songs, including "Lift Me Up" for which Rihanna received an Academy Awards nomination for its music composition (not the lyrics). It further demonstrates that Rihanna can also compose music in addition to writing lyrics.
The article List of songs recorded by Rihanna lists so many songs penned by Rihanna, incl. a number of songs she penned for projects other than just her studio albums, which further shows her versatility as an artist and songwriter.
While you choose to dismiss her songwriting credits, I don't. With 152 credits total on ASCAP, including so many successful songs, songwriting is definitely not just a side hustle or a hobby for her. "Singer" and "businesswoman" are her primary main occupations. "Songwriter" and "actress" are her secondary main professions.
I sincerely think that I've made sound arguments.
If we've genuinely reached an impasse, I'll have to seek further dispute resolution. Israell (talk) 10:39, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I've said many times the lead needs to mirror the infobox per Template:Infobox person.
What I am saying is that yes she has many credits. However she needs to be known for doing this which is well stated in MOS:OPENPARABIO. Do multiple high quality RS note her as a songwriter (and not for writing others' songs, but as a songwriter as a main occupation). No. Which is why I am opposed to its addition.
Anyway I am not interested in making further arguments either. 750h+ 10:47, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is not true. Many Wikipedia articles have one or more professions listed in the infobox, and the fact that Rihanna is a writer of quite some of the work mentioned in the lede (songs, albums, soundtrack songs of cited movies) justifies a mention of "songwriter" in the infobox.
And I've already demonstrated how writing songs is one of the main things that she does as a recording artist. 152!!! (Regardless of media coverage.)
We clearly disagree. Israell (talk) 10:58, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm simply going by MOS:OPENPARABIO. And yes, many Wikipedia articles have one or more professions listed in the infobox because they are known for that, and even so, WP:OTHERSTUFFGENERAL. 750h+ 11:03, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that major publications repeatedly mention her songwriting means that she is also known for that in the industry. She's just not as known for that as you think she should be for the article to mention her songwriting craft (so many songs) anywhere in the article. I'll remind you of WP:NPOV.
Rihanna wrote too many songs, including hit songs, for her songwriting occupation to reasonably not be mentioned. Israell (talk) 11:58, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have said what I said.
"Rihanna wrote too many songs, including hit songs, for her songwriting occupation to reasonably not be mentioned." Is she very known for her occupation as a songwriter per MOS:OPENPARABIO? 750h+ 12:05, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Rihanna is credited for writing songs for other artists as well. She IS a songwriter. https://americansongwriter.com/5-songs-you-didnt-know-rihanna-wrote-for-other-artists/ and https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/music/7-songs-rihanna-wrote-artists MraClean (talk) 16:55, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not repeating what I've said multiple times above. Sportskeeda is not a reliable source BTW. 750h+ 16:58, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
100% support adding songwriter to Rihanna's occupations, including the page categories. Her writing is repeatedly recognised by the sources in the other comments. In addition, she won the Songwriter of the Year award from BMI. [18] Miklogfeather (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree w/ Mr Boar1. The way I see things, if a recording artist consistently sings, they are a singer; if a recording artist consistently writes songs, they are a songwriter—regardless of how many collaborators write with them. Collaborative songwriting doesn't necessarily diminish one's craft—it may actually reinforce it (trigger new ideas, help one become a better writer, etc.).

I also agree with Never17, and I'll add that Rihanna does have songs like "Towards the Sun" and "Drop That" (both available on the Home (soundtrack) that Rihanna only wrote with one or two other writers.

Rihanna even has several song credits on her first two albums, which shows that songwriting was always part of her craft. I do not see any valid reason for the infobox and the artistry section of the article to bear absolute no mention of Rihanna's songwriting. This is not a fantasy! While there may not be a lot of information on how exactly she writes her songs, her many songwriting credits are official, and it is not up to us to have a wild guess on whether or not they are legit or whether or not her contribution is significant. Israell (talk) 11:01, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not expanding any further unfortunately, unless I see an argument I can possibly side by. You've made arguments and that's fine and so have I. I am going by MOS:OPENPARABIO. If anyone else feels like contributing to the conversation, please take a good look at all the previous comments. 750h+ 11:04, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’m honestly leaning towards an RFC. In terms of individual songs, the article mentions "Rude Boy," "Work," "The Monster," "FourFiveSeconds," "Bitch Better Have My Money," "American Oxygen," "Too Good," "Nothing Is Promised," "Sledgehammer," "Wild Thoughts," "Loyalty," "Believe It," and the Academy Award-nominated "Lift Me Up"—all songs that Rihanna had a hand in writing (lyrics or music). It is illogical to argue that her songwriting craft cannot explicitly be mentioned in the body of the article and referred to in the infobox. Rihanna is evidently a songwriter and has been so since her early days.

"Rihanna also developed her songwriting skills early on. “I began writing poetry first, and I would save my poems. Then later on, I began writing lyrics.” Rihanna co-wrote many of the songs on Music Of The Sun, mostly collaborating with her producers, Evan Rogers & Carl Sturken (who have co-written and/or produced hits for Christina Aguilera, Kelly Clarkson, Ruben Studdard and *NSYNC)." [19]

Citing WP:V, I support the recognition of Rihanna's habitual and notable songwriter occupation in the article. As Wikipedia editors, we are not allowed to make judgment calls on whether a songwriter is a "real" songwriter worthy of such a mention.

WP:OTHERSTUFFGENERAL and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS do not apply here as I see it. I am also a huge fan of WP:OWN. I am also an even bigger fan of WP:STABLE which state, “The stable version of an article is the most recent revision that was not affected by an active content dispute or edit war.”TruthGuardians (talk) 02:23, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not too interested in this whole conversation anymore, I believe it's the WP:RS that should be ones to classify her as a songwriter. I will not be leaving any further comments. 750h+ 02:32, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
These articles by Rolling Stone, Billboard, Vogue, Essence and CTV all mention Rihanna's songwriting work.
American Songwriter mentions songs Rihanna wrote for other artists and confirms that she "has had a hand in writing a majority of her catalog, including hits, “Rude Boy,” “Work,” her 2009 collab with Jay-Z and Kanye West, “Run This Town,” and dozens of other songs, including her most recent Wakanda Forever track “Lift Me Up.”
And this Billboard article literally states: "Rihanna is ready to own 2023. The superstar Barbadian singer and songwriter will make her long-awaited live comeback next month when she graces the biggest stage of them all, the Super Bowl Halftime Show."
Here we go! Israell (talk) 15:27, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@SNUGGUMS: Have you seen the discussion above? I have built the most extensive case I could with reliable sources such as Rolling Stone, Billboard, Vogue, Essence and CTV that clearly refer to Rihanna as a songwriter. And there is the fact that Rihanna has 153 songwriting credits so far—which is a lot more than the number of credits of some other singers referred to as songwriters on Wikipedia (WP:OTHERSTUFFGENERAL and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS do not apply in this case—there must be some regularity across articles). At least five other editors (Never17, MrBoar1, MraClean, Miklogfeather, and TruthGuardians) agree with reinclusion of "songwriter" in the infobox article at the least. 750h+ editors has a strong opinion that Rihanna is not a true or legit songwriter; I repeatedly explained that while he's entitled to his opinion, he cannot use it as policy on here. Wikipedia is about WP:V; major publications refer to Rihanna as a songwriter, the Academy Awards and the Grammys recognize her as such, her hit singles she penned are not limited to her number ones on the Billboard Hot 100, Rihanna composes music (not just lyrics, and even if she only wrote lyrics, she'd still qualify as a songwriter ), and it is not our duty as Wikipedia editors to guess or determine if her many songwriting credits have merit or not.
It would be a complete waste of time for this to have to come to an RfC; we've already gone through that in the past with the Beyoncé article, and the same debate took place on the Madonna article years earlier. All this time debating over one word could be spent adding content to Wikipedia instead. This extensive talk page discussion and consensus are largely sufficient.

An admin actually recommended I make a bold edit—incl. the lede [20]. I'll do so and cite it in my edit summary. Israell (talk) 11:09, 15 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any reason why her songwriting couldn't be discussed within "Artistry", and since you pinged FMSky earlier, I should mention that user got indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet of Urgal and therefore can't reply here. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:51, 15 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Artistry

Here is the section I composed for the artistry section that was removed in violation of the three-revert rule:

Songwriting

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists.[1][2][3] By November 2025, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 152 songs. Israell (talk) 17:43, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "5 Songs You Didn't Know Rihanna Wrote for Other Artists". 8 May 2023.
  2. ^ "7 songs Rihanna wrote for other artists". 19 August 2024.
  3. ^ "Rihanna drops long-awaited album in streaming exclusive". 28 January 2016.

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists.[1][2][3] By November 2025, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 152 songs.

Rihanna started her songwriting craft early on, writing poetry and then writing lyrics. [21]

In addition to lyrics, Rihanna also composes music. The Academy Awards recognized and nominated her music composition for the song "Lift Me Up." "Drop That," one of the songs Rihanna wrote for the Smurfs Movie Soundtrack, is an instrumental song. Israell (talk) 11:55, 22 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists.[4][5][6] By March 2026, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 153 songs.

Rihanna started her songwriting craft early on, writing poetry and then writing lyrics. [22]

In addition to lyrics, Rihanna also composes music. The Academy Awards recognized and nominated her music composition for the song "Lift Me Up." "Drop That," one of the songs Rihanna wrote for the Smurfs Movie Soundtrack, is an instrumental song. Israell (talk) 10:58, 15 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@SNUGGUMS: I also, in good faith, expanded the artistry section to elaborate on Rihanna's songwriting craft. However, 750h+ now acts like he owns this article and will not allow ANY mention of Rihanna's songwriting anywhere in the article. That's not reasonable, and he was already reported for edit-warring. Israell (talk) 11:02, 15 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Israell: see WP:FAOWN. Edit warring to impose your version of an FA is not appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:10, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 March 2026

The second paragraph under Artistry contains a grammatical error. "Rihanna's music is primarily R&B and pop singer." 'singer' should be removed. Minor edit change. Don'taskwhyImadethis (talk) 20:25, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Alpha Beta Delta Lambda (talk) 22:34, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 March 2026

Rihanna dated Travis Hunter from 2013-2014, and this inspired her in her making of ANTI. Not completely though. ~2026-16125-49 (talk) 06:20, 14 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Tbhotch™ (CC BY-SA 4.0) 06:25, 14 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Acting

On the topic of the above, I think the "actress" part of her occupations should be removed. She has no lead roles in major blockbusters, sparse output (1-2 per year max, mostly 2012-2018), and focus shifted to Fenty brands and family since around 2020. Rihanna is one of the top-selling music artists, and her businesses have helped her accumulate a billion-dollar net worth. MOS:ROLEBIO states: "emphasize what made the person notable" and "non-noteworthy roles (i.e. activities that are not integral to the person's notability) should usually not be mentioned in the lead paragraph". Her acting roles are little in comparison to her status as a singer and businesswoman. 750h+ 10:13, 16 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Being "major blockbusters" isn't as relevant as factors like quantity of movies or the attention she gets for them. We should not judge solely based on box office earnings. Not sure what to say about lead vs. supporting roles when she definitely had some film roles that weren't minor. Nevertheless, I definitely agree that music and business ventures are much more prominent parts of her career. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:53, 16 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I do understand your initial concern, though I would say the word "actress" could only be included in the lead if she had some major blockbuster starring role (or had large box office numbers), or won/get nominated for a large award. 750h+ 01:24, 17 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
That's overly limiting when not every person who goes into acting (even when it's their primary occupation) has any blockbuster or gets nominated for let alone wins awards. I also wouldn't decide based on accolades alone. A person in theory could get lots of praise from critics for their roles without either of these things. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:38, 17 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and I do understand that. What I’m trying to say (I didn’t phrase it that well before) is that because Rihanna’s sales are so high and her businesses have garnered her a billion-dollar net worth, I think it’d only be fair for her to have had something very major to happen in her acting career. when you compare the sheer scale of her success in music and business to her acting career that have made her famous across both music and fashion, acting is minor by comparison.
Now say Rihanna had sold significantly less records and her businesses had made her significantly less than her music. There I’d argue be at least more reasonable to include her roles as an actress. 750h+ 11:08, 17 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The thing you just mentioned ("I would say the word "actress" could only be included in the lead if she had some major blockbuster starring role (or had large box office numbers), or won/get nominated for a large award") is nothing anywhere close to what the standards/definition of a role (of a famous person, no less) is. Being labelled as actor, or whatever else, has nothing to do with "major blockbuster" and has nothing to do with awards. It looks like a transparent and bizarre rationalization, made-up out of nowhere to support your own pre-existing attitude.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:27, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

For a celebrity as huge as Rihanna, of course either having a box-office hits or getting film nominations/awards should be indicators. We are not talking about a C-class celebrity here. That being said, I agree that "acting" has not been the field that made her notable (yet) as per MOS:ROLEBIO. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:11, 17 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Rihanna has some major film roles, some of which are recent. I do not support removal of the actress occupation in the lede or infobox. Israell (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Compared to her singing and business, the acting roles seem minor. You don’t see Taylor Swift’s article mentioning her role as an actor despite her role in Cats. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 12:15, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Songwriter (in the lede and infobox) - Part 2

See RfC below. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In regard to documenting Rihanna's songwriting profession, I'm encountering a certain opposition that is certainly not proper.

I am asked by an editor to provide a level of details that is impossible to provide, and that's not reasonable.

I have provided multiple evidence of Rihanna's involvement in some of her song lyrics. Rihanna explained in interviews how she started writing poetry, which evolved into song lyrics.[23] She also explained how skilled songwriters helped her develop her own songwriting skills.[24] She explained how her renowned music collaborators helped her pour her emotions into her lyrics that she penned (V Magazine recognizes her as a real songwriter in this article).[25] Billboard magazine mentions Rihanna sitting in a studio, seemingly writing lyrics.[26] Collaborator Diplo mentioned Rihanna writing a lot of songs.[27] Songwriting partner Earlly Mac recalled writing songs with Rihanna.[28] It was explained how Makeba Riddick helped Rihanna wrote the bridge of "Rude Boy."[29]

I also provided evidence that Rihanna received credit from the Academy Awards for co-composing the music of the song "Lift Me Up"[ https://x.com/TheAcademy/status/1617880619006185472] and evidence that she received credit for co-composing the music of the instrumental track "Drop That."[30] I posted this evidence to show that Rihanna has instrumental music composition skills in addition to lyrical skills.

Despite all this evidence, I am asked by an editor to state "exactly" what she authored or composed in so or so song, to delve into the exact extent of her songwriting...


Even for some of the most artists popular artists like Beyoncé, Drake, and Taylor Swift, one will almost never find line-by-line attribution of who wrote what. That's just not how the industry documents songwriting!

Billboard magazine literally calls Rihanna a "songwriter."[31] That I can add.

Assumptions that "she only changes one word or one line" or that she only provides "a few musical notes" or doesn't write anything at all and just pays for the credits cannot be implied if no reliable sources state it.


I was told by an editor that the burden of proof is on me... Actually, the burden of proof goes both ways. If an editor challenges Rihanna's role, they must provide a reliable source stating that her contribution was minimal or non-existent. If they cannot, their objection fails under Wiki policy.

Dismissing Rihanna's many songwriting (over 130 on the ASCAP repertoire[32], excluding duplicates) based on the assumption that she only changes one word or so is pure speculation which violates Wikipedia: No original research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. There is no reliable source stating that Rihanna's songwriting contribution is generally minimal or simply bogus. Without a source, such doubts cannot be applied here to Wikipedia.


It is unreasonable to demand of me to state exactly what Rihanna's contribution to all those songs is. Citing WP:V and WP:NOR, Wikipedia requires published sources, not forensic breakdowns. I cannot just make up sources that don't go into such details, and editors cannot demand it either. Absence of detailed attribution doesn't equate absence of contribution.

As I stated many times earlier, the songwriting credits (that pass publishers, labels, and performing rights organizations) are paramount, and Rihanna's got a lot of those, and her hits are not limited to #1s on the Billboard Hot 100.

Just because some recording artists or producers or executives may (allegedly or factually) have stolen songwriting credits, it doesn't mean that Rihanna is most likely doing the same thing. That's pure speculation, hearsay, and it's got no place here on Wikipedia.

I have provided sufficient evidence that Rihanna is a songwriter—a credited songwriter. Israell (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also... One doesn't necessarily need to master an external instrument in order to compose music. Composing by ear (singing a melody and having an instrumentalist duplicate the melody) is a totally valid form of music composition. It doesn't matter what is used (mouth, guitar, piano, sheet music, or else) to demonstrate the melody. Maybe Rihanna does play an instrument (a virtual instrument?) that we don't know about, but regardless, speculation about how exactly she composed music or how many lyrics she wrote in specific songs is just that—speculation. It cannot be used to invalidate her musical credibility on here.
Online chatter that an artist "steals" songwriting credits is pure speculation, hearsay, and original research. That's not proper on here, and we must maintain a neutral viewpoint. Israell (talk) 09:20, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I was asked to comment on the article. So it seems pretty simple. Has Rihanna ever composed a song on her own? And what is she known for as a songwriter? From what I can tell, she’s known for writing lyrics. But given that artists can write a single word and get credit for a song (as you mentioned), that seems to be a pretty minor part of her life compared to performing and recording in general. It does not appear that there is good documentation about Rihanna as a songwriter, so what the article has (her collaborating to write) seems appropriate given the available sourcing. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 12:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I've already established that being a sole songwriter is not a requirement to be known as songwriter. As a matter of fact, many, many songwriters co-write their songs. Plenty of known, successful recording artists have no sole writing credits but are still known to be songwriters.
Lyricists are songwriters.
And I've repeatedly pointed out to at least two songs Rihanna received a music composition credit for—music, not lyrics. I can reliably state that Rihanna is a credited songwriter and participated in the collaborative songwriting process of songs like "Lift Me Up" or "Drop That." That’s it! Anything more specific requires sources that don’t exist publicly.
And I've already explained that assumptions that Rihanna's songwriting contribution is minimal or faked/bought are just that—assumptions. That's pure speculation, and it cannot be used by editors as determining factor on Wikipedia. Speculation on the extent of Rihanna's actual contribution is original research, and that's not allowed when editing articles.
"Just because some recording artists or producers or executives may (allegedly or factually) have stolen songwriting credits, it doesn't mean that Rihanna is most likely doing the same thing. That's pure speculation, hearsay, and it's got no place here on Wikipedia." By this, I already responded to the argument you're making.
Editors must be neutral in their editing. Considering that Rihanna's songwriting contributions only grew over time, with over 130 songwriting credits (incl. her most recent songs), and she's currently working on new music, I logically argue that songwriting is a pretty major part of her craft. Without her songwriting input, many of her songs would not be. Israell (talk) 14:23, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The ChatGPT notice at the end of your revision here is a bit concerning. 750h+ 12:58, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I did not use ChatGPT to compose my text. I used it to help me find sources that elaborate on Rihanna's songwriting when editing the article, and that is allowed. It pointed me to a Revolt TV article that mentions Earlly Mac talking about writing songs for Rihanna. I just didn't shorten the link. Israell (talk) 13:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
So just a followup - Rihanna has never written a solo song? And available sources can’t point to what she does as a songwriter other than lyrics, right? Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 13:23, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Responded above. Israell (talk) 14:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
So to confirm, Rihanna has never written solo, and there aren't details on what Rihanna has done as a songwriter, other than maybe adding lyrics? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:27, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
"Rihanna has never written solo" Not relevant.
"and there aren't details on what Rihanna has done as a songwriter" Already explained earlier. Some details were given. Generally, no high quality source will state exactly who wrote what in each song, etc. The information provided is largely sufficient.
"other than maybe adding lyrics" Told you already... Pure speculation. Hearsay. WP:NPOV Israell (talk) 15:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Based on your answers, I would agree with removing Rihanna as a songwriter as a primary occupation then. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:26, 19 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to note @Israell emailed me about this thread asking me to take administrative action against @750h+ and @Hurricanehink. I'm obviously not going to do that. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:10, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Voorts: I told you: "Could you please look into this and act according to your best judgement?" I did not ask you to take action "against" them. For instance, you could have decided to edit the article in that regard—or not. Israell (talk) 14:13, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Why else would you need an admin other than to take action against an editor? Admins have no special authority over content disputes. voorts (talk/contributions) 14:28, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I honestly thought you could look into this, and according to your best judgement, edit the article to reflect the proposed change—or not. Israell (talk) 14:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The admin would not have edited the article regardless . This is a discussion for the editors of the article. You can get as many admins as you’d like and they’re going to give you a very similar response. 750h+ 14:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you think editors are being disruptive, feel free to go to ANI. We don't operate as a star chamber. voorts (talk/contributions) 14:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yikes. 750h+ 14:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
First it was whatever this mess of a addition was, the ChatGPT additions, then it was asking Hurricanehink to get involved but that editor disagreeing with you, and now this. Pretty low quality edits for a featured article I do have to say so myself. 750h+ 14:47, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
What ChatGPT additions are you referring to? You and the other editor kept demanding more and more sources, details about her songwriting, etc. I couldn't find anything more on Google search. So I used ChatGPT to help me find links to sources that elaborate on Rihanna's songwriting when editing the article, and that is allowed (one of the links [a link to Revolt TV] had an extra "chatgpt" ending I hadn't noticed). So could you please stop with your false accusations?
I was told that the body of the article had to elaborate on her songwriting, so I worked on that; I ended up modifying the addition you're referring to.
In any case, this discussion now pertains to the lede and infobox. Israell (talk) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
“I couldn't find anything more on Google search” perfect. You could not find anything detailing her songwriting on google search. I think this is case closed from my POV. 750h+ 16:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I have provided details. Re-read this part:
'I have provided multiple evidence of Rihanna's involvement in some of her song lyrics. Rihanna explained in interviews how she started writing poetry, which evolved into song lyrics.[33] She also explained how skilled songwriters helped her develop her own songwriting skills.[34] She explained how her renowned music collaborators helped her pour her emotions into her lyrics that she penned (V Magazine recognizes her as a real songwriter in this article).[35] Billboard magazine mentions Rihanna sitting in a studio, seemingly writing lyrics.[36] Collaborator Diplo mentioned Rihanna writing a lot of songs.[37] Songwriting partner Earlly Mac recalled writing songs with Rihanna.[38] It was explained how Makeba Riddick helped Rihanna wrote the bridge of "Rude Boy."[39]
I also provided evidence that Rihanna received credit from the Academy Awards for co-composing the music of the song "Lift Me Up"[
https://x.com/TheAcademy/status/1617880619006185472] and evidence that she received credit for co-composing the music of the instrumental track "Drop That."[40] I posted this evidence to show that Rihanna has instrumental music composition skills in addition to lyrical skills.'
There are no high-quality sources that will state exactly what Rihanna composed in "Lift Me Up," "Drop That" or any other song. There are no high-quality sources that will give a line-by-line attribution of who wrote what in any song. Collaborative songwriting is not documented that way. You are now demanding a level of details that cannot be provided; that's undue burden. Israell (talk) 17:28, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
For transparency's sake, here's a copy of the email I sent to voorts:

Hi, Voorts,

How are you doing today?


This is regarding an escalating matter that requires admin intervention.

Last November, I was asked by an editor, 750h+, to provide more evidence of Rihanna's songwriting profession and its relevance for the re-inclusion of the term "songwriter" in the lede and infobox of her article.

I have ever since provided more and more such evidence.

For instance, I cited many reputable publications (such as Billboard, Rolling Stone, American Songwriter, The Hollywood Reporter, Spin, V Magazine, BBC, Essence, Vogue, Elle, Revolt TV, iHeartRadio, and CTV) that recognize Rihanna's role as a songwriter, call her a songwriter, quote her songwriting partners who affirmed Rihanna's involvement, or delve into her songwriting process, giving some details about her craft.

I also emphasized how the Academy Awards recognized Rihanna's songwriting talent, nominating her for music composition of the song "Lift Me Up," and another editor mentioned Rihanna winning a BMI songwriting award in 2017.

I also mentioned how the Grammys also recognized Rihanna's songwriting talent and how she now has over 130 songwriting credits.


Despite all of the above, that editor still refuses to allow the amendment. Along with another editor (that weighed in on the talk page these past days), they're now demanding a level of details that is impossible to provide.

Details such as "proof" that Rihanna doesn't simply add or change one word or one line, or what exactly Rihanna composed in pieces of music like "Lift Me Up" or "Drop That."

There are no high quality sources that display a line-by-line attribution of who wrote what in specific songs. That is just not how collaborative songwriting is documented!

1. Such a demand is unreasonable.

2. Editors cannot base their editing on speculation or hearsay that a recording artist "steals" songwriting credits or their personal belief that said recording artist is not a "true" songwriter. Doing so goes against WP:NOR and WP:NPOV.

3. All the evidence I've provided pass WP:V, and that suffices.

4. It is not my duty as an editor to "prove" that Rihanna didn't just "change one word" or "add a few notes only." The burden of proof is on those making such claims. IF reliable sources make a case in that aspect, the article could potentially mention it. So far, there are no such reports.


I am now forced to enact an RfC in order to conclude this matter. I'm now looking into RfC protocols, but to be frank, I do not believe that such a case even requires an RfC.

All the evidence provided and the support I obtained on the talk page are largely sufficient.

One editor is preventing me from duly editing the article based on their own personal disbelief of the validity of Rihanna's songwriting, which totally goes against the Wiki policies I outlined above. This is not proper at all, and it's consumed way too much of my time. It's an unnecessary source of stress.

Could you please look into this and act according to your best judgement?


Sincerely,

Israell Israell (talk) 14:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"It's consumed way too much of my time. It's an unnecessary source of stress." - seeing as there is no deadline on Wikipedia, and you seem to be the main user wanting to put "songwriter" in, I suggest dropping the matter until you find high quality sources describing Rihanna's role as a songwriter. I pointed out at the recently created Songwriting credit essay that merely getting songwriting credit doesn't mean much. Even Celine Dion has a songwriting co-credit from her Christmas album, but that doesn't mean she is a songwriter. I pointed out to Israell (off-wiki) the possibility of artists getting credit for a song for adding a word or a riff. This reddit thread talks about Rihanna getting just 1% of the songwriting royalties for her song Work. Mind you, I'm not saying to cite Reddit, but rather, there is plenty of reasonable doubt about Rihanna's role as a songwriter. So the burden of proof (when it comes to verification) is providing composition details. Not just songwriting credit, not just sources saying Rihanna is a songwriter, but what she did as a songwriter. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Why not just start an RfC on this one question? voorts (talk/contributions) 17:37, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
As I've just stated above, there are no high-quality sources that will state exactly what Rihanna composed in "Lift Me Up," "Drop That," or any other song. There are no high-quality sources that will give a line-by-line attribution of who wrote what in any song. Collaborative songwriting is not documented that way. That level of details that cannot be provided; that's undue burden, and it's unreasonable.
Céline Dion only has a handful of credits...
The fact of the matter is, per reliable sources, the music industry sees Rihanna as a songwriter, and her songwriting credits + all the evidence provided so far are largely sufficient to support the amendment of the lede and infobox. Israell (talk) 17:40, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Collaborative songwriting is not documented that way. That level of details that cannot be provided ... That's not true. Books get written on songwriters and their collaborations. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
They want me to state exactly what she composed in a specific song or to give proof that she wrote a lot of the lyrics and didn't just change one word or add just one line, etc. I reiterate that that level of details that cannot be provided.
Such books are not written for all artists, for every song, etc. And even then, such books may not go into such details. Israell (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
looks like words being put in my mouth. Because I don’t remember asking for this. I recall us asking for details on HOW she’s been a songwriter. 750h+ 17:52, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
There's now an RfC below. You've largely made your points across these discussions. Since you are the one seeking to add content to the article, the burden is on you to prove that the addition of the content is verifiable and due. I suggest that your !vote be concise and cite the best sources that substantiate your claims. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
“there are no high-quality sources that will state exactly what Rihanna composed in "Lift Me Up," "Drop That" or any other song” this is not what anyone was asking for this. Hurricanehink specifically said “Rihanna's role as a songwriter”. If Rihanna is such a songwriter I’d expect to see reliable sources expanding on her role as one. But it seems like there isn’t even one. Songwriting credits, IMO, mean nothing here when we don’t even know how much or little she participated to the song. Until you can give anything past “this article said Rihanna was a ‘singer and songwriter’” (despite not going even slightly into her songwriting) and songwriting credits, I don’t think it is worthy to be included as a main occupation of hers. 750h+ 17:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Israell, @750h+, @Hurricanehink. I've started an RfC below. Please try to keep your posts concise and avoid extended back-and-forths. I suggest a total of less than 500 words per editor in the discussion. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:47, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RfC: Songwriter

APPROVED
NAC: There is a consensus that Rihanna should be described as a songwriter. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should Rihanna be described as a "songwriter" in the lede and infobox? 17:46, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Survey

APPROVED
The consensus is clear and backed by multiple reliable sources. It is enough for us that they describe her as a songwriter. Doubting them because they don't go into detail about her contribution to songs on which she is a credited writer is a supercilious requirement which finds no refuge in our sourcing policies and is in my opinion borderline tendentious.

Yes, I'm aware, there are cases in the history of popular music where people for years got credit for others' ghostwriting, and sometimes there are situations where an uninvolved party got a songwriting credit on a particular song (I recall an interview with Gene Simmons on the Professor Rock YouTube channel where Simmons says that Peter Criss didn't actually contribute anything to "Beth" since, as the band's drummer, he didn't have anything to do with melody or lyrics ... it was just political, a way of rewarding him for (however inadvertently) bringing the song to Bob Ezrin's attention). And maybe this is the case with Rihanna. But no such evidence is adduced here. Until/unless it is, it is enough that reliable sources describe her as a songwriter, along with the credits on her own songs. Daniel Case (talk) 18:27, 19 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  • No, as I've seen no evidence of solo songwriting, and no evidence of composition details on any major song. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Your comment managed to make a string of serious errors in less than 20 words.
    First of all, "solo songwriter" is not the definition of "songwriter". Some of the most famous songwriters in all of human history worked as a duo or group.
    Second of all, songwriting doesn't mean "composition", as anyone with even the tiniest familiarity with the concept knows, it can just mean *the lyrics*. As the great side, um, Wikipedia, says: A songwriter is a person who creates musical compositions or writes lyrics for songs, or both.
    Third of all, "major song" is obviously not the requirement for whether someone is a songwriter.
    Fourth, your declaration that "I've seen no evidence" is not meaningful. A meaningful statement would be, "I have searched and found none." I've seen no evidence that William McKinley was a President of the USA, but that doesn't make it false, and it doesn't even mean I looked. RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 20:48, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @RandomEditor6772314: I see you are responding to every single no vote, so I don't feel a need to reply to every one of your points. I stand by what I said, that I've seen no evidence of any solo compositions. At best, Rihanna is a collaborator. If the Wikipedia article was to describe her as a songwriter, then the article would need to go into detail about what she did as a songwriter. I did not vote no without doing any research, I've been familiar with this discussion for several months now. If you can point to any sources that identify Rihanna's role as a songwriter (beyond songwriting credits), then I would happily change my vote. And that includes if there's any sources that identify what words (plural, words) Rihanna wrote. I asked other users here and elsewhere if they could identify any song that Rihanna wrote lyrics (again, more than one word) to. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, her roles as a singer and businesswoman eclipse her role as a songwriter (WP:ROLEBIO). No reliable sources speak on her ability as a writer. 750h+ 17:54, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    First of all, one role "eclipsing" another is not the appropriate grounds for removing a role.
    Second of all, the idea that "businesswoman" eclipses the musical part is absurd.
    Third of all, your statement that "no reliable sources speak on her ability as a writer" seems extremely confused on multiple levels. The question is not "ability", since an artist is still called an artist regardless of whether their art is terrible. Sources obviously exist and are cited in other comments. Using the word "writer" instead of songwriter seems extra-confused about what music credits actually are.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, as the information provided is largely sufficient, and the article cannot be based on a level of details that is impossible to provide.
I took the time to do more research and build an even stronger case for the addition of "songwriter" in the lede and infobox of the Rihanna article. Billboard magazine literally calls Rihanna a "songwriter" [41]. The Academy Awards nominated Rihanna for music composition of the song Lift Me Up [42]. Rihanna once (alongside Future and DJ Khaled) won R&B/Hip-Hop Songwriter of the Year at the BMI R&B/Hip-Hop Awards [43]. American Songwriter published an article on five songs that Rihanna wrote for other artists [44]. Other publications recognize Rihanna's work as a songwriter: Rolling Stones , Elle, Vogue, Essence, and CTV, among others. I provided multiple documentation that delves into Rihanna's songwriting process beyond high quality sources calling her a songwriter or mentioning her songwriting credits: V Magazine, Billboard, iHeart Radio,Revolt TV, and BBC. Two more sources: [45], [46].
Credits are official, published facts—legal and industry-recognized—especially when it comes to a major international artist like Rihanna. Such credits already passed publishers, labels, and performing rights organizations. They are therefore valid, citable facts.
As for assumptions or hearsay that Rihanna only writes one word... I've already verified (with multiple reliable sources) that she immersed herself in her lyrical craft, that skilled songwriters helped her hone her own skills (which implies a lot more than minor contributions), pour her emotions in her craft, that Makeba Riddick helped her write the bridge of "Rude Boy" (which is specific), that her peers in the industry affirmed her habitual songwriting, and that she also composes music (the Academy Awards recognizes that).
To describe what Rihanna composed exactly (once again, no high quality source goes into such details) is not necessary (the information provided is sufficient per WP:V). Having sole songwriting credits is not a requirement; having over 130 credits [47], incl. credits on her most releases, shows that songwriting is a primary occupation for her (alongside that of singer); playing an external instrument (like the guitar, the piano, etc.) is not absolutely necessary to compose music (for example, one can draw notes on sheet music or simply compose by ear, using one's mouth to demonstrate the melodies for an instrumentalist to play); it doesn't even matter "how" she composed (if even the Academy Awards credit her for composing, then it falls under WP:V—no need for further "verification"); and once again, assumptions or hearsay that she generally only changes one word or adds one line go against WP:NPOV and WP:NOR.
Believing that Rihanna is "not a songwriter," only changes one word or adds one line or a few notes in a recording is not a valid basis when it comes to this question. Such assumptions are original research and cannot be used to remove or avoid use of the term "songwriter" in the lede and infobox of the subject's article. Israell (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes Rihanna has written & co-written various hit songs from her own discography as well as with other artists. More than enough sources support this Never17 (talk) 18:24, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • No per 750h+. She is wholly non-notable as a songwriter; reliable, independent sources have refrained from discussing ths aspect of her career in depth. So must we. —Serial Number 54129 (wake up Fortuna) 18:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Your comment is so extremely wrong that it's suspicious and disturbing:
    A) The person is obviously credited on a bunch of songs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Rihanna (Note "Rihanna" is not legal name, therefore her songwriting credit doesn't necessarily say "Rihanna" just as Slash's birth certificate doesn't say, I don't think, "Slash")
    B) Not only is the person credited on a bunch of songs, but they are...literally worldfamous as a singer of those songs.
    C) "in depth discussion" of a professional role is not at all the basis or definition for listing a role as a role
    D) Obviously reliable independent sources are easy to find, which tells us all, in public, that you said that without actually checking. Here's one example: https://www.grammy.com/news/rihanna-songs-albums-discography-music-guide-career "penning nine of Rated R's 13 tracks" RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:02, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @RandomEditor6772314: as I pointed out elsewhere, please don't respond to every single "no" comment, and you are supposed to assume good faith. Comments like "suspicious and disturbing" are unproductive to this discussion. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Her full legal name (at birth) is Robyn Rihanna Fenty; her songwriting credits indicate "Robyn Fenty," "Robyn R Fenty," or "Rihanna." I agree that reliable independent sources (like this one) have indeed discussed that aspect of her career in depth. Israell (talk) 00:58, 21 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes Category:Songs written by Rihanna exists, enough sources support that she is at least a co writter of numerous songs, sole credit is not required for Beyonce's page to be called a songwriter, same rule applies here too. castorbailey (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with this, I have voted yes UpDownFootnote (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, but replying to another user that you voted yes doesn't count as a vote. You have to submit your vote in at the bottom of the section and in the other votes format (dot, bold Yes, then your reason for your vote, then your signature) castorbailey (talk) 23:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, I have commented on this before, and for reasons mentioned above here Rihanna is certainly a songwriter. I do not see why anyone would even want to oppose this. MraClean (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    "I do not see why anyone would even want to oppose this". Racism and sexism combined (aka intersectionality), meaning, a person gets subjected to dismissal, denial, scrutiny, and credit-stripping, while certain other people who have the exact same record (of whatever arts or deeds or collaborations) don't get subjected to it.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, Rihanna should be considered as a song writer here as documented in other outlets. She also co wrote songs with other artists which have been successful such as with Eminem and Shakira. Even if she don't write every word she contributes to the song like ideas or lyrics someway. Mr Boar1 (talk) 23:59, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. As I already said before, Rihanna only co-wrote 3 of her 14 number-one songs: "Rude Boy" (co-wrote with 5 other people), "Work" (co-wrote with 6 other people), and "The Monster" (co-wrote with 6 other people). It's obviously not her defining profession and not integral to her notability per MOS:ROLEBIO. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:39, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously the proportion of "number-one" songs is not at all the definition of whether someone is a "songwriter" or accurately labelled as a songwriter. That was a weird contortion.
    Obviously the person has written (meaning, has legal writing credit on) far more songs than the extremely misleading "3" in your comment.
    Obviously the obsessive focus on "co-wrote" in your comment shows a complete lack of understanding of what writing credits are. Some of the most famous songwriters in history were co-writers. RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, Rihanna is an award winning songwriter who is described as such in multiple sources. It is Wikipedia's job to reflect that in this article. Miklogfeather (talk) 08:06, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes. When I think of Rhianna is “songwriter” the first, second, or third thing that pops up in my mind? Absolutely not. But who am I to create a goal post as to what is a songwriter and who should be classified as such. It all boils down to did she write song(s)? The answer to that is yes. Are there reliable sources reporting on her song writing? Answer to that again is yes. Is it my goal post? No. It’s Wikipedia’s, and that will have to be enough.TruthGuardians (talk) 11:52, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes. If multiple reliable sources state that she is a songwriter, and no other equally reliable sources provide credible reason to doubt that claim, then she is a songwriter. We follow sources, not argue with them. Seraphimblade Talk to me 12:33, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes Unfortunately though, as she appears much less than 50% of the time as songwriter on our own list of her songs and a lot of those she is merely a contributor, she is described as such by others. They are obviously wrong, of course. I believe a note should be made of this fact as well if there are reliable sources that state "she gets called this but is not one". Swing, meet roundabout. Chaosdruid (talk) 13:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes per Seraphimblade and Israell Episteme Aletheia (talk) 03:12, 31 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, songwriter is well-sourced and it fits in well with her other notable accomplishments. Pistongrinder (talk) 02:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes. The case has been made that several high-quality, reliable sources describe her as a songwriter. Coffeeurbanite (talk) 18:03, 1 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes It's supported by reliable sources. Wyll Ravengard (talk) 10:20, 5 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes - Clearly and obviously. As has been explained by others with good evidence. See my other replies for discussion of how absurdly false, weird, and misguided, many of the "No" comments are about the Songwriter label for Rihanna. Literally a world-famous singer/music-person who in fact is credited on ~70 songs and called a songwriter on grammy.com. (And no the definition of songwriting or songwriting credit has nothing to do with "solo" or "awards" or "in-depth discussion" of her exact writing parts, it has nothing to do with "composition", and has nothing to do with the many rationalizations that people cooked up to say Rihanna shouldn't be called a songwriter, which never happened for other figures.)RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. Rihanna is undeniably a songwriter with songwriting credits, but after looking at the arguments above, I'm not seeing evidence that "songwriter" is how Rihanna is most commonly described by sources and that songwriting is one of the things she is most notable for. It's therefore not appropriate for the lead sentence per MOS:ROLEBIO. It's extremely common for musicians to write music, but it doesn't necessarily make it their defining role for Wikipedia purposes. Popcornfud (talk) 12:06, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Discussion

  • @Israell: - can you shorten your response? The RFC says - “Editors are encouraged to keep their contributions to the discussion at less than 500 words total.” Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    It's 484 words right now. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:17, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I got 507 words by my count, my mistake. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:20, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I used a random internet word counter. In any event, @Israell, you should work on making your posts more concise. Please stop commenting on other editors and focus on content. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:20, 25 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi,
    First you asked someone to shorten their response, apparently because a webpage says people are "encouraged" to do less than 500 words. Then you said your "random internet word counter" was wrong, which clearly means you had no real issue with the length since you had to use a word count to get a measurement and justify your criticism (when in reality 484 is not different 507 words if you had genuinely believe the comment wasn't "concise" or relevant). Then you gave condescending unwarranted personal advice to the other person, "you should work on making your posts more concise, Please stop commenting on other editors."
    I'm here to point out: you were the one focussing on another editor. You were the one who wrote multiple misguided comments that did not contribute anything to the actual discussion, while criticizing one of the few people in the entire thread who made a meaningful contribution (I.e. research and facts.)
    Please follow your own advice, and stop making up random rules that dismiss another human being's comment in a comment section. The "reply" button exists so that commenters can comment on other comments, like I'm doing now, so that people can point out when another person's comment is extremely wrong, misguided, and hypocritical.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:16, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @RandomEditor6772314: Voorts is an administrator and is attempting to guide this discussion, which has become heated and contentious, due to the need for accuracy and maintaining the integrity of the featured article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:48, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Oops, I misread the conversation as between you and israell, I didn't realize it was between you and voorts about the length. Sorry. Anyway, my point still stands: the concern about something being around 500 words, based on an official "encouragement" of staying under 500 words (not a rule), followed by needless personal advice focussing on "an editor" instead of the merits/substances of highly relevant detailed comments, while israel did and showed careful well-explained research to support a (Yes) vote (while other comments used incorrect definitions and falsehoods), looks like badly flawed logic (while also being hypocritical). Israell's comment was practically an award-winning research project, in context.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:43, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    "badly flawed logic" - there you go again, not assuming good faith. I have been interacting with Israell for many months about this very issue. You only have 181 edits since 2021. Badly flawed logic would be assuming that your lack of experience means you might not understand that's going on here, but instead, I believe that you are quite competent as an editor, so I'm happy to explain. No, Israell's comment was not an award-winning research project, not when one of their points is flawed, when he said, "To describe what Rihanna composed exactly (once again, no high quality source goes into such details) is not necessary". I disagree on that front, considering Rihanna is an important artist that is a featured article, where details are important. You can't just add one small thing without going into details. The article already says "Rihanna often co-writes her songs alongside a team of collaborators." That is accurate based on the sources that I've seen, and a lack of further, detailed, follow up. As I've been suggested to not bludgeon this topic to death, this is the last thing I'm going to add to this discussion. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @Israell, @Hurricanehink, @750h+: stop. You all are continuing to bludgeon this to death. Let other people comment. voorts (talk/contributions) 12:47, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    "Let other people comment." Some people making detailed comments/conversation does not stop other people from commenting. So, what is the meaning of that comment? Especially coming from an admin(?)?RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @RandomEditor6772314: See WP:BLUDGEONING. Stop aggressively commenting on every post that you disagree with in this discussion. Next stop will be ANI. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:24, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Jimcastor: Just a note that this page is incomparable to Beyoncé, who’s called a songwriter because multiple articles detail her songwriting. If this weren’t the case I’d be requesting a removal of that too. 750h+ 00:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    That was a reference to Hurricanehink's argument that there was no evidence of solo songwriting, that can't be a reason for not calling someone a songwriter. Multiple reliable sources reported that Rihanna co wrote songs or wrote lyrics'("Wakanda Forever, is a soft and vibe-y ballad that Rihanna co-wrote with Tems;[7] "Rihanna co-wrote her new single with Tems"[8] "punching buttons on the console and seemingly writing lyrics "[9] "Anti would arrive, the sinuous track – which Rihanna co-wrote with Jeff Bhasker,"[10] this along with her actual songwriting credits on multiple songs is sufficient to call her a songwriter, as it is for Beyonce. castorbailey (talk) 00:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Being described as a songwriter in various sources is insufficient under MOS:ROLEBIO. Rihanna needs to be considered notable for being a songwriter, not just described as such. That means that we need significant coverage about Rihanna as a songwriter. See also WP:BALASP. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the difference between Beyonce is that there are multiple references that delve into her songwriting and songwriting abilities, meanwhile there is quite literally not one single source (barely even any primary sources) that go into this. If she was a songwriter, I would expect such. I also think it is interesting that despite having the most Hot 100 number-one songs of any artist this century, Rihanna is nowhere to be found on Billboard's list of the top songwriters of the century based on chart success; Bey is found at number five, despite having five less No. 1s than Rih. 750h+ 03:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Separate notability for each role of the lede is not a requirement of MOS:ROLEBIO. All the reliable sources I provided strongly support Rihanna's role as a singer and a songwriter (WP:V, WP:RS). Rihanna's notability as a recording artist is proven fact. And judging by her number of songwriting credits, being a songwriter is a great part of artistry. Dismissing her many songwriting credits without reliable sources confirming they are bogus violates WP:NOR.
    Also, MOS:ROLEBIO does not require that a subject receives as much coverage as another subject. Israell (talk) 03:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    i'll agree with including "songwriter" in the lead (as one of her most notable occupations) when I see sources that speak on her songwriting ability. Songwriting credits have been out of the window for me as those do not show the extent of her contributions. Also it does not matter to me at all if all a source says "Rihanna is a singer and songwriter" if that same source does not go any more into her songwriting ability. Lead is supposed to include her most notable roles. If there's nothing past those then clearly being a songwriter is not notable for her. 750h+ 04:03, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    MOS:ROLEBIO doesn't have an "ability" requirement. Claiming so is akin to creating a higher standard, and that goes against the Wikipedia policies I mentioned. Many reliable sources confirm Rihanna to be a songwriter, and that's largely sufficient per Wiki policies. Anything else is editorial gatekeeping not backed by said policies. Israell (talk) 04:13, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    "Many reliable sources confirm Rihanna to be a songwriter": reliable sources have called Beyonce a filmmaker/director. Madonna a guitarist. Taylor Swift a businesswoman. Robert Downey Jr a singer. I want to hear why you think these aren't mentioned in the opening sentences of those articles. 750h+ 04:24, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Per reliable sources (incl. her many songwriting credits), songwriting is a habitual occupation for Rihanna, not something occasional or incidental. Due weight is therefore met. Israell (talk) 05:24, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    again, we don’t know the extent of Rihanna’s contributions to individual songs, which is why credits alone are insufficient for determining due weight in the lead. Per ROLEBIO it should not be however may songwriting credits, but whether it is treated by reliable sources as a defining aspect (and not just “rihanna is a singer and songwriter” without stating anything about her writing)of her career. and if “songwriting is a habitual occupation for Rihanna” there should be multiple independent sources that go beyond “Rihanna is a songwriter” and instead talk about how she contributes to her songs and analyze her songwriting style or creative role within her discography. despite the thousands of words you’ve written I’ve yet to see an example for this.
    Now i will say: Rihanna is a songwriter. She does have a part in writing songs. However, is this a/treated as a defining aspect of her career? No it is not. Her singing and business careers eclipse this by miles. it honestly just sticks out like a sore thumb. 750h+ 08:11, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    MOS:ROLEBIO rules out incidental and non-noteworthy roles in the lead. Category:Songs written by Rihanna list 55 songs. Having that page with that many entries and not calling Rihanna a songwriter on her main page would be a contradiction. WP:BALASP is about the article as a whole, not the lead. Simply noting that Rihanna is a songwriter is hardly undue weight. castorbailey (talk) 11:51, 31 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

As I stated during the first part of the discussion, Rihanna's hits are not limited to her number one singles on the Billboard Hot 100—far from it. Besides, non-singles are just as important in one's journey as a songwriter. Over 130 songwriting credits cannot be dismissed. Unless reliable sources confirm her songwriting input is minimal, token, or fraudulent, her credits are considered just as valid as her co-writers. Israell (talk) 03:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also, a featured article does not demand a higher burden of proof or details that are not publicly available. The sourcing provided is largely sufficient. Israell (talk) 04:04, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not saying songwriting credits can’t be dismissed, but with that many credits, there should be something about what Rihanna did as a songwriter, in a reliable source, that’s verifiable. That level of precision for a featured article is expected. The fact the info isn’t available (to the best of my knowledge) is why I voted no. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 04:08, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Per reliable sources, she wrote lyrics. Per Wiki policies, that alone largely suffices. (I provided sources that give some details about her lyrical craft.) And per reliable sources, she composed music. Her lyrical craft alone suffices, so her composition work is just bonus—no more details required. Israell (talk) 04:20, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Sources say Rihanna got credit. Is there any evidence she wrote more than one word for any song? Or that any of her poems became songs? Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 04:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, editing based on whether or not "she wrote more than one word for any song" goes against WP:V and WP:NOR. This is pure speculation, and it cannot be a basis to avoid or remove the songwriter occupation from the lede and infobox. Wikipedia relies on reliable published sources, not speculation pertaining to the extent or veracity of contributions. No reliable sources decry the subject's songwriting credits as bogus. Therefore, proof of substantial authorship is not required. Israell (talk) 05:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Not involving myself with this part of the discussion any further than this comment but it stands out to me that a lot of your responses have ended with “not required”, “… is sufficient”, etc. 750h+ 07:54, 26 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Chaosdruid: A total of five credits from the Loud album, the Home soundtrack, and the "FourFiveSeconds" single were missing from the list you linked, so I added them, which takes the tally to 73. If we only take the songs that were actually released into consideration, Rihanna had a hand in writing 68 out of 164 of them. That's less than a half, but still more than a third, and a number of those songs only have from two to four songwriters total. Besides, Rihanna's still got more songwriting credits [48] (over 130, excluding duplicates) than other acts such as Reneé Rapp [49] (46 credits) and Alex Warren [50] (38 credits) who also write with others. Israell (talk) 19:32, 27 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Israell: have you found any songs where you have documentation that Rihanna wrote more than one lyric? Any of the people (such as yourself) saying she "wrote lyrics" implies more than one word, so just looking for some verification for that. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:24, 27 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    As I've already stated, the documentation provided pass WP:V and WP:RS, and assumptions or hearsay that Rihanna generally only changes one word or adds one line go against WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. No reliable sources make a case for Rihanna usually only writing one word or so; such verification is therefore not required. Besides, this is not how sourcing works in music. Generally, no high quality source will state exactly which lyrics or how many lyrics an artist wrote in a specific song. That kind of verification is undue burden and not generally used on Wikipedia. Israell (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • So it sounds like you haven't found any song where you can verify that she wrote more than one lyric, just confirming. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I stand by my aforesaid statement.
    In addition to that, I've already verified that Makeba Riddick helped Rihanna write the bridge of "Rude Boy" (which is specific): "Rude Boy was the work of five different songwriters, including Makeba Riddick, who helped [Rihanna] write the bridge, and Rob Swire, who contributed to Stargate’s production work."[51] There is no assertion or implication (from this high quality source or any other reliable source) that Rihanna only wrote "one lyric" in this song or any other song. WP:STICKTOSOURCE Israell (talk) 06:25, 28 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still no verification for multiple lyrics though, and that source only says "Rude Boy was the work of five different songwriters, including Makeba Riddick, who helped [Rihanna] write the bridge". I still see no evidence Rihana wrote more than one lyric. That's a ridiculously low bar that should be easy to pass. Similarly, do you have evidence for any of Rihanna's poems becoming songs? You brought up multiple times on this talk page that Rihanna's poems became lyrics - well, which song then? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:56, 28 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @Hurricanehink & @Israell: stop. you're both bludgeoning now. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Not looking to prolong the discussion, but I can understand both perspectives. Ultimately, basing content on our own interpretations of what happened or what is “true” risks veering into synthesis. Our role is to rely on reliable, secondary sources, and in this case, multiple such sources use this description. If there are concerns about that characterization, they’re best directed at the sources themselves. In the meantime, our responsibility is to reflect what is supported by verifiable sourcing.Coffeeurbanite (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @Coffeeurbanite: Verifiability doesn't guarantee inclusion. The relevant question is whether it's balanced abd due to describe her as a songwriter in the first sentence per MOS:LEAD and MOS:FIRSTSENTENCE. If we can't write a section of the article that describes her songwriting in detail other than citing passing mentions of "she wrote X song", we shouldn't include it in the first sentence. I'm not taking a position in this particular RfC because I haven't done adequate research into those questions. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:42, 1 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @Coffeeurbanite: It should be noted that many singer/songwriter articles on Wikipedia do not include a songwriting section: David Bowie, Ed Sheeran, Chris Martin, Charlie Puth, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Charli XCX, Doja Cat, and Nessa Barrett, to name a few. None of those articles go into detail about the subjects' songwriting. Israell (talk) 02:02, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Other articles aren't relevant to this one, which is an FA. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    David Bowie's page is also a FA. Israell (talk) 14:30, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not relevant. See WP:OTHERCONTENT. voorts (talk/contributions) 14:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    @Voorts I don’t entirely disagree with you. I also think the material you mentioned belongs in the body. As for the lead, I see a case for including it there as well—but mainly because the current wording leans a bit promotional. Phrases like “businesswoman,” “influential figure in popular culture,” and “artistic reinventions” read more like puffery than summary.
    What if we streamlined it to something more direct and neutral, along the lines of: she is best known as a Barbadian singer and figure in popular culture, with a multifaceted career that includes co-songwriting credits. Rihanna is one of the best-selling music artists of all time, with estimated sales of over 250 million records.Coffeeurbanite (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd argue that by now, Rihanna is widely known as businesswoman (because of her Fenty Beauty and Savage X Fenty businesses) launched in 2017 and 2018, respectively. Though she had musical releases (all co-written by her) in 2020, 2022, and 2025, her last studio album was released in 2016.
    Her aforesaid businesses, that have occupied much of her time, have therefore been a main occupation for her, not just side hustles. For that reason, "businesswoman" should remain in the lede. As an actress, Rihanna's had over twelve acting roles in motion pictures and television, incl. lead roles, so "actress" should remain in the lede as well.
    And of course, "singer" and "songwriter" should both be in the lede considering that these two occupations go hand in hand for Rihanna and she's still active as a musician, currently working on new music. (In this Elle interview, Rihanna discusses the creative process of her next music album, asserting that it's going to be where her "artistry deserves to be right now." The article features a reel that shows Rihanna in the recording studio, operating a mixing console and doing some writing.)
    The lede sentence should therefore read: "Robyn Rihanna Fenty is a Barbadian singer, songwriter, businesswoman, and actress"; the infobox would consequently feature all four occupations. Inclusion of the term "songwriter" itself in the lede (first sentence) and infobox is the question of the RfC.
    As for the second sentence of the lede ("An influential figure in popular culture, she is known for her multifaceted career, artistic reinventions, and eclectic fashion style."), I cannot argue that any of those elements are untrue or overblown. Israell (talk) 05:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "5 Songs You Didn't Know Rihanna Wrote for Other Artists". 8 May 2023.
  2. ^ "7 songs Rihanna wrote for other artists". 19 August 2024.
  3. ^ "Rihanna drops long-awaited album in streaming exclusive". 28 January 2016.
  4. ^ "5 Songs You Didn't Know Rihanna Wrote for Other Artists". 8 May 2023.
  5. ^ "7 songs Rihanna wrote for other artists". 19 August 2024.
  6. ^ "Rihanna drops long-awaited album in streaming exclusive". 28 January 2016.
  7. ^ https://www.vogue.com/article/rihanna-lift-me-up-social-reactions
  8. ^ https://www.essence.com/entertainment/rihanna-new-single-lift-me-up-black-panther-soundtrack/
  9. ^ https://ca.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/rihanna-day-in-life-video-montage-recording-studio-session-1236188229/
  10. ^ https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/rihannas-30-greatest-songs-ranked-205613/kiss-it-better-2016-197625/
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Content about shooting

In this section of the article, it is noted that a female suspect was taken into custody with no further elaboration. I am not here to challenge this, as it meets the WP:BLPCRIME policy. What I do want is to ask this -- would it potentially be worthwhile to add a hidden note for editors who may be less well-versed in BLP to not include the name of the individual in the section, the fact that it has appeared in reliable, secondary sources notwithstanding? I ask because this seems like a potential problem given the substantial coverage the incident has received in recent weeks, and I do believe we should take steps to preempt any violations of BLPCRIME, WP:BLPNAME, and other such policies. I'm just here to inquire about this, fellow editors can feel free to let me know what they think. JeffSpaceman (talk) 14:16, 29 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by hidden note? Episteme Aletheia (talk) 04:24, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Adding more awards in the lead

Currently the awards are listed in random order and some awards which she won multiple times or even more times than what is already in the lead should be there I think. What is the opinion about this edit?

Rihanna is the recipient of numerous accolades, including thirteen American Music Awards, twelve Billboard Music Awards, nine Grammy Awards, eight People's Choice Awards, seven MTV Video Music Awards and six BET Awards. Episteme Aletheia (talk) 04:22, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

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