Talk:Grete Hermann

Good articleGrete Hermann has been listed as one of the Mathematics good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 3, 2026Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 6, 2026.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that mathematician Grete Hermann wrote political philosophy articles for Der Funke and Sozialistische Warte under various pseudonyms during the German resistance to Nazism?
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 2, 2020, and March 2, 2026.

GA review

Passed. MCE89 (talk) 23:43, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Grete Hermann/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Revolving Doormat (talk · contribs) 19:03, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: MCE89 (talk · contribs) 03:54, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Hello, will review this. I'll aim to add my initial comments within the next day or so. MCE89 (talk) 03:54, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, and no issues with source-text integrity, neutrality, or close paraphrasing in my spot checks. I did a couple of minor copyedits directly to the article, but feel free to undo any that you don't like. Happy to pass this — congrats on the GA! MCE89 (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Initial checks

  • Images: Infobox image has an appropriate NFUR and is compliant with the NFCC
  • Copyright: No issues apparent on Earwig. Will do further checks for close paraphrasing as part of my source spotchecks
  • Stability: No issues

Prose and general comments

This is very well-written overall — just a few suggestions on the article prose from my read through. Feel free to disregard or push back on any of these changes if you don't think they would be an improvement, most are not essential to meeting the GA criteria on their own. MCE89 (talk) 05:53, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

  • ...her foundational work in quantum mechanics and political philosophy with the Internationaler Sozialistischer Kampfbund (ISK) in opposition to Nazism — I think this sentence could be tweaked slightly to make the syntax clearer (i.e. to avoid it reading as "her foundational work in quantum mechanics...in opposition to Nazism"). Perhaps something like She is known for her foundational work in quantum mechanics, her writings on political philosophy, and her work with the Internationaler Sozialistischer Kampfbund (ISK) in opposition to Nazism.?
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 12:57, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • a long-ignored critique of the no hidden variables proof by John von Neumann — The grammar here makes it slightly ambiguous whether it's the critique or the proof that belongs to von Neumann. You could consider changing this to a long-ignored critique of John von Neumann's no hidden variables proof
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 13:02, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • and she posthumously published the works of others — I got a bit lost here on my first reading on how she was managing to publish others' works after her own death. I think something like she published the works of deceased mathematicians or she published the posthumous works of others might be clearer
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:03, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • which was unusual for girls at the time — Does this mean that it was unusual for girls to attend that particular school, or that it was unusual for girls to attend high school in general?
 Done – clarified she was one of few admitted by exception and note of when the school became officially co-educational Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:03, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • I assume that The Question of Finitely Many Steps in Polynomial Ideal Theory is the title of her published thesis, but I think this could be made more explicit in the text
 Done — explicitly said it is her PhD thesis. Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:07, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can remove — Grete Hermann, The foundations of quantum mechanics in the philosophy of nature from the bottom of the blockquote and move the citation to just before the quote (see MOS:BLOCKQUOTE). I think the source of the quote is made clear within the body
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:07, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Her first position upon her return — This comes a bit out of nowhere, because you haven't yet told the reader that she left Germany during the war. I think it could be helpful to reorganise this section slightly to separate out the chronological description of her career from the detailed description of her mathematical contributions
 Done – fair point, I moved this without properly introducing a segway. It is difficult to make this strictly chronological, in my opinion, since her career in academia was essentially interrupted by the war. Feel free to offer comments on the update. Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:25, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could consider mentioning that Pädagogische Hochschule Bremen was a teachers' training college, or just provide an English translation of its name
 Done — did both. Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:25, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • due to rules and demands that she perceived as threatening to her intellectual independence, including vegetarianism and leaving the church — I don't think I follow the meaning here. Were these "rules and demands" imposed by Nelson or the ISK? And does this mean that she was a vegetarian and non-religious, or that others demanded this?
 Done — reworded: She waited to join ISK until after Nelson's death in 1927 due to rules and demands he imposed on members that she perceived as threatening to her intellectual independence, including enforced vegetarianism and leaving the church. Feel free to share your thoughts. Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:46, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that's much better
  • After Nelson's death, Willi Eichler took up its leadership — I think you can make it clearer that Nelson was the leader of the ISK, I didn't gather that from the previous paragraph
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:46, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • a Quaker who founded the Brynmawr Experiment and connected to ISK — Should this be "...and was connected with the ISK"?
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:48, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • which was classified as a marriage of convenience, due to Nazi persecution — I found this a bit confusing until you explained the reasons later in the paragraph. I think it might be clearer to the reader if you moved that explanation to a little earlier and changed this to something like: ...in a marriage of convenience that allowed her to obtain citizenship and protected her from internment
 Done Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:52, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • Reference formatting and layout meets GA criteria
  • Per WP:THESIS, masters' theses are generally not reliable sources unless they can be shown to have significant scholarly influence. Unless that is the case for reference 5, I'd suggest that it should unfortunately probably be removed
 Done — was able to replace all the information with other sources. Revolving Doormat (talk) 13:50, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Otherwise no concerns regarding source reliability

Spot checks

This table checks 8 passages from throughout the article (10.0% of 80 total passages). These passages contain 8 inline citations (9.3% of 86 in the article). Generated with the Veracity user script. MCE89 (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Reference # Letter Source Archive Status Notes
Both of her grandfathers were pastors.
6 a Venz, Vera (2009). Zur Biographie von Grete Hermann (in German). Germany: Grin Verlag. ISBN 978-364… Good
However, she instead enrolled at the University of Göttingen in 1921 with her two older brothers,
4 c link.springer.com Good
She defended her thesis in 1925, which included her majors of study.
5 e physicsworld.com Good
Heisenberg describes her as dissatisfied with intermediate positions, but as partly reassured by replies influenced by Niels Bohr, and presents the exchange as clarifying the relation between Kantian concepts and modern physics.
20 b Heisenberg, Werner (1972). Physics and beyond: encounters and conversations. Harper torchbooks. New… Good
The ISK was vehemently opposed to the Nazi Party
12 e physicstoday.aip.org Good
Carl and Eva were both arrested and jailed by the Nazi police for harboring a Jewish family in 1943.
32 b Mordecai Paldiel (1993). The path of the righteous. Internet Archive. Ktav. pp. 154–155. ISBN 978-0… archive.org Good
At the time, it was nearly impossible for German exiles to obtain work permits, so many refugee women married to be automatically granted British citizenship.
29 d brill.com Good
While in London, Hermann and Specht were leaders of the Union of German Socialist Organisations in Great Britain.
12 h physicstoday.aip.org Good
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) 17:53, 3 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

(
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  • Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by Revolving Doormat (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Revolving Doormat (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2026 (UTC).[reply]

  • The hook is interesting. It was brought to GA status January 2026 and thus is eligible. Earwig shows no concerns and the article is long enough. None of the sources appear to be unreliable. QPQ is not needed for this one. However, I cannot find "Sozialistische Warte" or "Peter Ramme" mentions in the source provided. Could you please fix this? :) DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 14:27, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@DaniloDaysOfOurLives: My apologies. When I updated the hook, I forgot to add the other source. Page 11 of this book:[1] Revolving Doormat (talk) 14:40, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I did not see this! This is hence good to go! Well done and thank you :) DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 21:39, 12 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Revolving Doormat: You've got an amazing article here, with maybe 10 incredibly interesting and unusual potential hooks, so I'm curious why you went with ALT0 about "Peter Ramme" instead, which doesn't even mention the reason she was using the name in the first place. I'm a bit confused by all of this. Viriditas (talk) 03:14, 16 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do not mind if the hook gets changed but I personally think the above hook will get more readers to click on the article in order to find out why, so I think it is a good hook. Though again, RD is free to change it if they want to. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 07:27, 16 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Viriditas: You are welcome to suggest alternative hooks, but I suggested this one because I thought it was interesting to a broad audience and is striking against the fact that she is most known for her work in mathematics. It says in the hook that she was using a pseudonym (concealing her identity) as part of the Nazi resistance. What context do you think is missing? We could add that she is German? Revolving Doormat (talk) 15:28, 16 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]


Missing info

Summoned by Sodiumbot and arrived after the review was closed. MCE89 and Revolving Doormat - great work, but I noticed a Death section is missing. The sources I see say that Hermann died in Bremen in 1984, but I thought you might be able to flesh it out, and perhaps can find more info than is in this source that is in the infobox next to the death info: <ref name="soler">{{Cite book |last1=Soler |first1=Léna |title=Constituting Objectivity |publisher=Springer |year=2009 |isbn=978-1-4020-9509-2 |editor=M. Bitbol |series=The Western Ontario Series in Philosophy of Science |volume=74 |pages=329–344 |chapter=The Convergence of Transcendental Philosophy and Quantum Physics: Grete Henry-Hermann's 1935 Pioneering Proposal |doi=10.1007/978-1-4020-9510-8_20 |editor2=P. Kerszberg |editor3=J. Petitot}}</ref> STEMinfo (talk) STEMinfo (talk) 09:12, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This source contains no information about her death other than the year and Crull's biographies, which are the most in-depth and well-researched sources, also contain no further information. The last note they have is that she retired in 1966 and her death date and place; both of which are in the article. I was unable to locate this information in any biographical sketch about her, but I can look again to address your concern. Revolving Doormat (talk) 12:53, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I have added more details, but nothing quite specific to her death has been found yet, beyond where and when. That said, I have actually found a really great source I am seeking that discusses her development of Nelsonian ethics in her later years. This could be added to the article in great depth. Unfortunately at present I have only the first 3 pages of the source available to me, so it will take me some time to read and research before I can do it any justice. I will add a brief mention of it for now as a placeholder. Revolving Doormat (talk) 15:34, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

During World War II

I know little about this woman's life but I do know that Denmark wasn't occupied by Nazi Germany until 1940. Therefore, this section needs to be fixed. JoeWiki1969 (talk) 01:55, 6 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Wordings

'When her mother fell ill, Nelson discouraged her from visiting her bedside, due to the Nelsonian ideal of prioritizing political matters over private ones. As a result, Hermann did not have the opportunity to see her mother before she died.'

Umm, this sounds as if she had no free will at all and he had total control over her. She did have the opportunity, she just chose not to use it and to listen to Nelson instead.

'She waited to join ISK until after Nelson's death due to rules and demands he imposed on members that she perceived as threatening to her intellectual independence, including enforced vegetarianism and leaving the church.'

So Nelson imposed enforced vegetarianism, as opposed to imposing non-enforced vegetarianism? What would imposing non-enforced vegetarianism look like? Or should he have enforced non-imposed vegetarianism? Seems like the word is just added to make it sound more violent or something. Anonymous44 (talk) 02:23, 6 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding point one, the source presents it this way. As always, feel free to be WP:BOLD and improve the article. Regarding point two, please see the GA review and again, if you feel you can improve the article, you can edit it. Revolving Doormat (talk) 04:38, 6 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

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