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I previously changed the template text (i.e. pop-up text on mouse over) to "definition needed", i.e. indicating that what is written lacks a definition, namely since in most cases, the template seems to be used when there is something that lacks a definition.

The old text was "when defined as?", which on the other hand seems to indicate (if I interpret it right; I'm honestly not sure I do) that what is written is in fact a definition, and that it is unclear when something else was defined this way. This is not the way in which the template seems to normally be used.

However, now the text has been changed back again to the old one. Can someone explain what "when defined as?" is supposed to mean, since the way I interpret it in doesn't seem to be the way in which it is used? I also suggest rephrasing the text as I think it is not very comprehensible. —Kri (talk) 10:12, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am he who reverted your change to "the new text", with the edit summary of that i prefer the previous one which has been for the last 7 years.

Apparently you understand quite well the intent of this cleanup tag. Your new text "Definition needed" serves the same purpose as the previous "when defined as?", which does not mean that what is written is an unclear definition; it is a question, a prompt to the speaker (in this case, the writer) to elaborate on the term just used, pointing out that the choice of that term is unfortunate in the absence of a further explanation (the "needed definition"), as the term is either ambiguous because of its different meanings, or unknown to the lay reader. To the reader, it warns about that weakness in the document. To a reader in the know, a potential contributor, it may inspire to improve the statement if s/he happens to know what the original contributor was talking about; else the statement should be removed altogether after a reasonable wait (which is why maintenance tags are timestamped).

"when defined as?" is a bit more aggressive than the very polite "Definition needed", therefore more noticeable, more visible. It displays impatience with weaseling and mediocrity; in my (perhaps twisted) view, the "politically correct" "Definition needed" complains, but is willing to wait for whenever someone deigns to fix the problem, however long that may take. "when defined as?" says that some correction needs to happen sometime soon, the current situation being hardly acceptable. --Jerome Potts (talk) 05:18, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I created a new tag called {{Definition needed}}. I think I misunderstood the purpose of this tag, and I don't think anymore that "when defined as?" and "definition needed" has the same intention; this becomes clear when reading the documentation for this tag. I instead think that they are complementary and that both are needed. —Kri (talk) 13:27, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jerome, I'm sorry for bringing this up once again, but I still don't think it's very clear how this template is supposed to be used. The template says "when defined as?", which makes it seem like a point in time is requested. Is it possible that this template should be used to ask when/where a given definition was first conceived (which is how I interpret it), rather than to ask for a definition of something that lacks a definition? Why would the template otherwise include the word "when"? —Kri (talk) 13:32, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The link produced by the template points to the Manual of Style, which seems unhelpful; shouldn't it point instead to this template, or to a specific style guideline? Rolf H Nelson (talk) 06:49, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]