Talk:Brain types

Untitled

Marked this article as pseudoscience. In fact, this "theory" has absolutly no scientific ground, only fraud claims as already noted by APA members. IMHO, position of this article should be much stronger, because I see only commercial purpose of such information, and no science. Waiting for NPOV comment :)

Please read these references:

http://www.americanboardofsportpsychology.org/Portals/24/BrainTypingSANDBEK.doc

http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0208&L=spssx-l&D=0&P=8229

http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0208&L=spssx-l&P=8791

Unex 01:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

==============================


NPOV comment/response: The recent edit of this article attempts to foist anti-brain-typing opinion on Wikipedia, which is indeed against NPOV policy. Brain typing has neither been entirely proven or disproven at this juncture, so editing the article to say it is 'pseudoscience' is highly assumptive. Providing the disputing views of the APA is fine, but editing the article to say things like it 'cannot' be proven just reveal a clear agenda. Make room for both sides of the coin.

--Khendra1984 14:50, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

==============================


Addendum: The links given are also not necessarily unbiased. Sandbek himself, with his appearances on the Oprah Winfrey show, sounds just as likely to be a commercialist as anyone connected to brain types (who do have some scientific supporters as well, including James H. Fallon, Daniel Amen, Nancy Snyderman, Vic Braden and Bob Arnot). The only notable skeptics who have come out openly against brain types seem to be other people in the sport psychology field (Carlstedt, Sandbek, et al.), who have a vested interest in making their products look better. I prefer this link distinguishing science from pseudoscience:

http://www.sfu.ca/~beyerste/research/articles/02SciencevsPseudoscience.pdf

--Khendra1984 09:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC) --- This link is dead; I have found an alternative one: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pseudo.html[reply]


Thanks for your comment. Yes, I agree, saying 'cannot' is not correct. But to be honest, I really doubt about the purpose of Brain types to be validated science. I didn't go deep into theoretical grounds of Brain types - in fact, I couldn't found any _concrete_ and scientific paper neither in scientific databases nor in the internet at all - but current states of the author and his web page is populistic and orientated to commercial benefit without any mentioning about real/concrete scientific works (neither in past nor in future).

Of course, articles should be neutral, but I don't think that Wikipedia should be compliant to commercialist which tend to be lying (essentialy that stated APA, and IMHO it quite clear even without APA).

I apologize for my strong words, but in this POV, I would like to defend psychology (with which I am familiar, and such theories like MBTI and socionics) which suffers from such "scientists" influence. Unex 01:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


According to professional protocol, I feel it has been unprofessional, unfortunate, and a noteworthy injustice for Sandbek to formally and publically criticize Niednagel and Brain Typing without ever having taken the time to speak with him, or to meet with him (or any of BTI's employees) personally. This seems to demonstrate a prejudicial approach to his research. How accurate can an investigation be from that vantage point? I have noticed that those who assail Brain Typing and Niednagel have only scrutinized and/or participated from a distance. The record shows that those who have personally associated with Niednagel find merit and benefit from his principles.


I find that skeptics are not always wrong, but often go too far. That seems to be the case here. If you study another personality typing system - Socionics - you will find that the notion of fluid versus stiff motor movements appears in Socionics in a similar way to what Niednagel proposes. This is odd, considering that both systems are based on Jungian personality typing! If you consider the fact that this is one of the traits that Niednagel "eyeballs" in order to determine his Brain Types, it would seem strange that he would be relying on cold reading if it is in both Jungian systems (Socionics also wasn't introduced to the West until lately - long after Niednagel began Brain Typing - and much of the two systems is not the same, so it would be surprising if Niednagel went so far to steal the idea). A much more fair argument against Niednagel is that, given the complexity of the human genome and the diversity of traits (and even anomalies) one finds in cognitive psychology, it seems hard to believe that human personality could be this simple. (For instance, that there are only 16 types of people.) Therefore, Niednagel *might* be perceiving a vague pattern to human personality, but there also might be much more to how it works. In this case, the cited article against Niednagel is not fair because it strikes a "low blow" against him, instead of investigating the scientific and logical validity of his claims. I would suggest that a more fair approach be taken in presenting his theory than using articles which appear to have some unfair bias in them - even if the bias is mild.

--jason_m2 22:59, 24 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.208.140 (talk) [reply]

I look at my above post and I was not clear: I think Brain Typing is pseudoscience, but I find it wrong to accuse Niednagel of cold-reading. Because this notion of typing based on motor movements appears in two different personality systems that measure almost the same traits, and because these notions were discovered independently, I think that the accusations are false. I would say that the theory is pseudoscience and is developed only for commercial purposes, but one cannot conclude that he is dishonest because of this. I believe the article on cold-reading is therefore misleading.

--jason_m2 07:19, 29 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1970:5C6B:8800:943B:4FC5:157D:EBB2 (talk) [reply]

Yes, Jason, I've followed the Brain Type system and Niednagel for years, and they definitely honestly believe in what they profess. As for it being pseudoscientific, I do think they do need to continue to establish actual brain and genetic studies to support their claims, or else it will continue to be viewed as such. Niednagel is very elderly and probably won't live to see verification of his system's claims, but as of 2020, his system basically still just rides on his own claims that he's able to analyze objective reality. That will not be enough to convince the scientific community or the public at large (their latest antivaxxer articles on their web site are doing them no favors, for those still reading their web site articles). The people who carry on with his system will have to continue working with experts in the genome, neuroscience, etc. to establish a basis for this, and not just rely on word-of-mouth, reputation in the sports world, written articles, claims, etc. I think he and his associates were onto something interesting with some use, but they still have a long way to go. (And they need to not alienate potential contacts in the scientific community with antivaxx nonsense.) --Khendra1984 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.201.52.47 (talk) 02:18, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move to "Brain typing"

How do other interested parties feel about this? --N Shar (talk · contribs) 09:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

MBTI references

Should we remove all MBTI references? This was suggested to me on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Khendra1984 --Khendra1984 (talk) 04:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Content Disclaimer

Informasi ini disarikan dari Wikipedia dan disajikan kembali untuk tujuan edukasi. Konten tersedia di bawah lisensi CC BY-SA 3.0. Kami tidak bertanggung jawab atas ketidakakuratan data yang bersumber dari kontribusi publik tersebut.

  1. The information displayed on this website is sourced in part or in whole from Wikipedia and has been adapted for the purpose of restating it. We strive to provide accurate and relevant information, however:
  2. There is no guarantee of absolute accuracy. Wikipedia is an open, collaborative project that can be edited by anyone, so information is subject to change.
  3. It is not intended to constitute professional advice. The content displayed is for informational and educational purposes only. For important decisions (e.g., medical, legal, or financial), please consult a professional.
  4. Content copyright. Wikipedia is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC BY-SA). This means that content may be reused with appropriate attribution and shared under a similar license.
  5. Responsible use. Any risk arising from the use of information from this website is entirely the responsibility of the user.