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Hello, I have recently expanded the article VP-Expert, focusing primarily on adding reliable, inline citations to support the content. I believe it now meets the B-class criteria. Would an editor from WikiProject Computing be able to reassess the article? Thank you. Bns1743 (talk) 18:24, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! For future reference, it is unlikely that someone from computing will see this here, try posting at Wikipedia:WikiProject Computing/Assessment. For what it's worth, I still think the article needs significant expansion and cleanup :). GoldRomean (talk) 05:24, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined.

Hello editors,

I have a connection to this topic (COI) and am therefore making this request rather than editing directly. The current "Applications" section is very brief and unsourced. I would like to suggest replacing it with a properly cited table of documented VP-Expert applications drawn from independent academic and industry sources. This would give readers a clearer view of how the software was actually used, while complying with WP:V and WP:NPOV.

Here is the proposed replacement table:

Application	Source	Link
Fire Effects System (prototype)	Industry, Science and Technology Canada	Fire Effects system (prototype)
ESAU – Expert System for Advising Undergraduates	*Journal of Research on Computing in Education* (ERIC)	Using an Expert System to Support Academic Advising
HYDROLAB – Groundwater Exploration & Exploitation	ResearchGate	HYDROLAB
PAVE – Pavement Failure Diagnosis	CIB W78 Proceedings	Pavement failure expert system
Aquaculture & Invertebrate Fisheries Expert System	Fisheries & Oceans Canada	Aquaculture ES
Reliability-Centered Maintenance for Pumping Equipment	IAEA INIS	RCM for Pumps
Crop Nutrition Diagnosis Expert System	IEEE/ResearchGate	Crop Nutrition ES
Tower Crane Location & Selection (CRANE)	Loughborough University	Tower crane location model
Animal Classification Expert System	*South African Journal of Industrial Engineering*	Animal Classification ES
Document Delivery Expert System (law libraries)	*Journal of Interlibrary Loan, Document Delivery & Information Supply*	Document Delivery Expert

Each entry above has a published, independent source confirming the system was developed using VP-Expert.

• • Request:** Please consider replacing the current short Applications section with this table, or some subset of it, so that the article reflects verifiable, neutral, and reliably sourced uses of VP-Expert.

Thank you! Brian Bns1743 (talk) 19:44, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: Please format your sources using the "cite" button instead of using links; also some of the sources do not appear to be WP:Independent. GoldRomean (talk) 05:23, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

revised to use "cite" and WP:Independent sources:

AI applications reported to have been built with VP-Expert (independent sources)

Application	Source
Airport capacity (noise–capacity KBES)	Wayson, Roger L. (1989). "Use of a Knowledge-Based Expert System to Maximize Airport Capacity in Harmony with Noise-Mitigation Plans" (PDF). Transportation Research Record. 1218.
CORMIX2 – Hydrodynamic mixing-zone analysis	CORMIX2: An Expert System for Hydrodynamic Mixing Zone Analysis of Conventional and Toxic Substances in Surface Waters (Report). U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. This program runs entirely under VP-Expert.
Water quality expert system (EPA Project Summary)	Use of Expert Systems in Water Quality (Report). EPA/600/SR-92/218. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. January 1993.
Fishway Design Expert System (FDES)	Bender, Michael J.; Katopodis, Chris; Simonovic, Slobodan P. (1992). "A prototype expert system for fishway design". Environmental Monitoring and Assessment. 23: 115–127. doi:10.1007/BF00406956. The rule-based expert system development tool, VP-Expert, supplies the backward chaining control structure.
Earth-moving equipment selection	Amirkhanian, Serji N.; Baker, Nancy J. (1992). "Expert System for Equipment Selection for Earth–Moving Operations". Journal of Construction Engineering and Management. 118 (2): 318–331. doi:10.1061/(ASCE)0733-9364(1992)118:2(318).
Unsteady open-channel flow knowledge base	Chau, K. W.; Yang, W. W. (1994). "Structuring and Evaluation of VP-Expert Based Knowledge Bases". Engineering Applications of Artificial Intelligence. 7 (4): 447–454. doi:10.1016/0952-1976(94)90010-8.
Computerized Acute Stroke Screening (CARS)	Goldman, R. S. (1996). "Results of a Computerized Screening of Stroke Patients for Eligibility for the NINDS rt-PA Trial". Stroke. 27 (4). doi:10.1161/01.STR.27.4.639. …linked to the VP-Expert system for execution of the algorithm.

Bns1743 (talk) 14:10, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bns1743 see WP:NOTEVERYTHING, WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:DUE. This list is not appropriate for an encyclopedia article which should should be a high-level summary of the important aspects about a topic based mostly on what WP:secondary WP:independent reliable sources say is important. S0091 (talk) 15:00, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These additions are based on contemporaneous, independent sources (trade press and an academic conference paper) and therefore comply with WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:INDY. The text reflects the sources directly and avoids any unsourced promotional claims.

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hello, I have a conflict of interest as the author of VP-Expert, so I am requesting that an independent editor consider the following addition.

I propose adding reliably sourced sales figures and market-share context for VP-Expert, based on contemporaneous independent publications:

• In June 1987, *Release 1.0* reported that there were “10,000 copies of VP-Expert out there.”^[1]

• In August 1989, a paper presented at the American Political Science Association annual meeting described VP-Expert as “the leading microcomputer expert system,” estimating 30,000 copies sold (about 40% of total expert-system sales).^[2]

Suggested text for the **lead section**:

VP-Expert was the best-selling expert-system shell for microcomputers in the late 1980s. Contemporary sources reported more than 10,000 copies in use by 1987,^[1] rising to about 30,000 copies and roughly 40% of the expert-system market by 1989.^[2]

Suggested text for the **History** section (if editors prefer it there instead):

By mid-1987, *Release 1.0* reported “10,000 copies of VP-Expert out there.”^[1] Two years later, an ERIC conference paper described VP-Expert as “the leading microcomputer expert system,” estimating 30,000 copies sold (about 40% of total expert-system sales).^[2]

Bns1743 (talk) 13:54, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GoldRomean — since you’ve edited this page recently, would you be willing to take a look at the COI request above? Thanks much

Bns1743 (talk) 20:15, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bns1743 What does ERIC stand for and what is the exact page number for the 2nd source? Also, sources are not needed for the WP:LEAD as the lead should summarize the key points already sourced and covered in the body. I am probably to trim the requested update to lead to state something like "By 1989 it was was one the leading....." leaving off the mid-1987 number (fine for body though). I am also going change the mid-1987 statement to attribute it to Esther Dyson. No need to update the request itself, just respond here. S0091 (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi S0091 "ERIC" stands for the Education Resources Information Center. The exact page for the Lewis 1989 source is on p. 27, which contains this

“VP-Expert, the leading microcomputer expert system, has sold 30,000 copies, or 40% of total expert system sales.”

Makes sense trimming the LEAD per WP:LEAD — and to leave the mid-1987 number for the body only, and attributing that to Esther Dyson sounds good. Thanks much! - Brian Bns1743 (talk) 16:47, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bns1743 that source is not strong enough to support the claims. It is conference paper so not peer-reviewed and that statement is made in the end notes and unsourced. Do have a better source? S0091 (talk) 18:04, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is this by InfoWorld who in 1989 described it as "best selling" we can use. S0091 (talk) 18:08, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay great-- thank you. Bns1743 (talk) 18:15, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bns1743 I strongly suggest using Internet Archive as I get over 1,400 hits for "VP-Expert" (use search text), though quite a few are duplicate publications. It really was the jam during it's prime. S0091 (talk) 18:41, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I checked it out and it did come up with lots of results I'd never heard of-- thanks for the tip and I'll dig deeper Bns1743 (talk) 19:17, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the results I get...1.2k rather than the 1.4 I stated. S0091 (talk) 19:25, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @S0091, thanks again for your feedback earlier. I agree with your idea to leave the 1987 number out of the lead and focus on a stronger 1989 source.

Per your recommendation, here is a secondary source we can use:

> **InfoWorld** (December 11, 1989) described VP-Expert as *"the best-selling expert-system shell for personal computers."*

> InfoWorld, p. 39

Here is what it could look like

:::::== History ==
:::::VP-Expert was widely adopted during the late 1980s. By December 1989, ''InfoWorld'' described it as "the best-selling expert-system software for personal computers."<ref name="InfoWorld1989">{{cite magazine |title=PC Expert Systems Mature |magazine=InfoWorld |date=11 December 1989 |page=39 |url=https://archive.org/details/InfoWorld-1989-12-11/page/n39/mode/2up}}</ref>
:::::== Lead (proposed addition) ==
:::::VP-Expert was the best-selling expert-system software for microcomputers in the late 1980s.<ref name="InfoWorld1989" />
:::::

Would you be up for implementing this version, or whatever wording you think best?

— Bns1743 (talk) 13:16, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bns1743 the link to the source does not work. S0091 (talk) 16:53, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Take two, here is the corrected code with a working link:

== History ==

VP-Expert was widely adopted during the late 1980s. By December 1989, InfoWorld described it as "the best-selling expert-system software for personal computers."^[3]

== Lead (proposed addition) ==

VP-Expert was the best-selling expert-system software for microcomputers in the late 1980s.^[3]

Bns1743 (talk) 20:36, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. S0091 (talk) 16:31, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

thank you! Bns1743 (talk) 15:25, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Status: Unanswered.

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

This narrowly scoped change is supported by multiple independent, contemporaneous reliable sources that explicitly credit Brian Sawyer as the developer of VP-Expert. It complies with WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:INDY.

Requested changes

1) **Infobox (software)** Add:

`| author = Brian Sawyer`

(Keep `| developer = Paperback Software` unchanged.)

2) **Lead or History (one sentence)** Add:

VP-Expert was created by Brian Sawyer and published by Paperback Software.^[1][2][3]

Sources ^[1]

^[2]

^[3] Bns1743 (talk) 14:27, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I only used one of sources and included the publication date. S0091 (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Because I have a conflict of interest, I am not editing directly. I propose adding the existing Commons file of the software’s cover to the infobox.

Requested change

In the article’s Infobox (software), add the following two lines:

: `| screenshot           = Cover_of_VP-Expert_Software.pdf`  
: `| screenshot_caption   = Cover of VP-Expert software`

This will display the cover image of VP-Expert in the infobox.

Source

• File:Cover_of_VP-Expert_Software.pdf on Wikimedia Commons (freely licensed).

Bns1743 (talk) 15:00, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done . I also fixed the non-free use rationale (minimality) as it refers to how it will be minimally used in the article, not just in general. -- Reconrabbit 20:03, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Bns1743 (talk) 23:39, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hi I have a conflict of interest so I didn't edit the page directly.

But I noticed the article carries a maintenance tag stating that it "may incorporate text from a large language model."

To address this, I suggest the following new text for the features section, including a reference from a reliable source

VP-Expert used an inference engine based on backward chaining to reach conclusions through English-like if/then rules. It operated through a text interface and included an explanation facility that showed the reasoning steps used to justify its conclusions.^[1]

Could an uninvolve editor please review and if acceptable implement the revision, and remove the LLM tag?

Thank you. Bns1743 (talk) 20:08, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are you proposing to replace the entire section with those two sentences? I just want to be clear about this. That section certainly does have a flavor of being LLM-generated. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:21, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

yes, am proposing to replace the entire "features" section please Bns1743 (talk) 23:40, 9 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, I made the change. I tried to verify your proposed statement to the source on Google Books, but was unable to do so. I also had to correct the ISBN. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:18, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Would it be possible to remove the LLM warning from the page? Bns1743 (talk) 12:48, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry about that oversight. Anyway, another editor removed it already. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:33, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hi I'm the author of VP-Expert and have a declared COI, so I am not removing these tags myself. The article currently carries the following maintenance tags:

• Close connection / COI tag (added August 2024)
• Large language model text tag (added September 2025)

Since then, the article has been rewritten and I believe these issues may no longer apply.

Could an uninvolved editor please review the current state of the article and determine whether these tags are still needed, or if they can be removed?

thanks much, Brian Bns1743 (talk) 13:25, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the AI generated tag. I'll leave it to someone else to remove the COI tag. Children Will Listen (🐄 talk, 🫘 contribs) 13:35, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done----Seawolf35 ^T--C 14:35, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I am the editor who added the COI template and I agree with the removal. S0091 (talk) 17:46, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

I have a conflict of interest as the creator of VP-Expert and would like to request a change to the History section to keep it focused on VP-Expert itself.

The current text reads:

VP-Expert was created by Brian Sawyer and published by Paperback Software in 1987. In June 1991, ownership of VP-Expert transferred from Paperback Software to WordTech Systems, Inc. following Paperback Software’s liquidation after a legal dispute with Lotus Development Corporation regarding its VP-Planner spreadsheet.

I propose replacing it with:

VP-Expert was developed by Brian Sawyer and first published by Paperback Software in 1987.^[1] In June 1991, after Paperback Software ceased operations, the rights to VP-Expert were acquired by WordTech Systems, Inc.^[2]

Rationale: The current wording includes details about a lawsuit that was unrelated to VP-Expert itself and gives undue weight to a negative event. Per WP:UNDUE, coverage should not overemphasize tangential material. Per WP:DUE and WP:SUMMARYSTYLE, the History section should focus on events directly related to the subject. The proposed wording keeps the timeline accurate and verifiable, maintains neutrality per WP:NPOV, and improves readability by focusing on VP-Expert's publication and ownership history rather than the unrelated legal dispute. Bns1743 (talk) 20:03, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be neither undue weight, nor a negative event, it's just an event that clarifies the situation by its inclusion. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:39, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The cited source questions Paperback's ability to provide support for VP-Expert because of the lawsuit so the two were tied: it will still have problems pursuing large volume or strategic orders, even for VP-Expert, as long as the suit exists.. It goes to talk about the future of VP-Expert should the lawsuit go into 1990. S0091 (talk) 17:48, 12 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello editors — I’d like to suggest adding a "See also" link on VP-Expert pointing to User:Bns1743/VP-Expert_Applications.

Disclosure: I have a conflict of interest, as I am the original author of VP-Expert and have been documenting its history on Wikipedia. I will not make this change myself and am seeking community input first.

Reasoning:

• It provides a sourced list of historically notable VP-Expert applications, useful for readers who want concrete examples.
• It complements the main article by showing real-world impact, without changing the main narrative.
• This would follow other software pages that link to lists or subpages of notable applications.

Would other editors support this addition? If so, I’d appreciate if a neutral editor could add it under a "See also" section. Bns1743 (talk) 14:46, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done See alsos should only include relevant articles and the proposed list is not article. S0091 (talk) 18:12, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

|text=Please consider revising the following sentence for accuracy and verifiability:

Current: > It was the best-selling expert-system software for microcomputers in the late 1980s.

Suggested: > It was the best-selling expert-system software for microcomputers.

• • Rationale:**

The phrase “in the late 1980s” seems to come from a single sales report from that era. However, reliable sources (e.g., *InfoWorld* Hot List rankings and *Release 1.0* market reports) show VP-Expert as the top-selling microcomputer expert-system tool, and there is no documented evidence of any other microcomputer expert-system product surpassing its sales either before that period or afterward. Because no reliable source explicitly limits VP-Expert’s best-selling status to only the late 1980s — and no later product is documented as outselling it — the time qualifier introduces an unsupported restriction. Wikipedia content should stick to what is directly verifiable and avoid unsourced qualifiers (per WP:V and WP:OR). }} Bns1743 (talk) 13:33, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done This is a semi-protected edit request. Please use the appropriate edit request template before lodging an edit request. Please also note that edit requests default to semi-protected. Your request is okay, it's just that you did not use the appropriate template. Theeverywhereperson (talk here) 14:23, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal engages in WP:SYNTHESIS, an analysis of sources to reach a conclusion that none of the sources explicitly say. We can't do that here. ~Anachronist (who / me) (talk) 17:14, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]